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Author Topic: Newbie needs advice and suggestions  (Read 2845 times)

davehaze

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Newbie needs advice and suggestions
« on: February 19, 2008, 06:18:31 am »

Hi, I'm new to digital processing and don't know what is the best image editing software to use...although PS CS3 seems to be a favorite there are a lot of alternatives it seems. I have a Canon 40d and I shoot in RAW and have been using DPP to touch up my pictures. From reading this forum I'm a little confused about all the different processes that are used in the workflow by different individuals......i.e. a variety of software suites to accomplish the same goal? Is it worth acquiring PS CS3 or can DPP essentially accomplish the same....probably not from what I gather and if so what are the differences? I also read that even with PS CS3 some prefer to print the final image from another software program? Is there a reason for that and would I need another program besides PS to print from?

PS CS3 is expensive and I have a small budget to work with right now so what would be the cheapest way to acquire PS? Get Photo Shop Elements and then purchase the upgrade version? Sorry for all the questions, it's rather difficult for me to understand all the options out there, thanks!
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genemcc

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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2008, 06:59:10 am »

A good way to get started in the Photoshop family is to get Photoshop Elements 6.  It's only $99 and you can probably get a lower price if you shop around.  Many of Photoshop's tools are there.  If you find that you like it and want/need to move up then you can decide about Photoshop CS3.

Also, take a look at Lightroom.  If you start to get serious about your photography it's an excellent workflow and organizational tool. For 80% or more of your shots Lightroom is all you will need.
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Gene
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jbrembat

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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2008, 07:12:39 am »

IMO DPP is the best raw converter.
Good free alternatives are dcraw and ufraw.
photodenoising and photoresampling are not expensive good products to integrate DPP.
Give them a try.

Jacopo
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davehaze

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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2008, 09:00:07 am »

Please keep in mind I'm totally clueless about all this so sorry about all these questions.

What are the differences between Lightroom and PS capability wise? I will never have a massive amount of images to edit so volume or speed of processing is not a factor. What tools does Photoshop Elements 6 lack compared to PS CS3? Can I upgrade directly from PE 6 to PS CS3 as that looks within my budget now?

I also don't understand about the different RAW converters out there. If I get PS CS3 can't I just download my raw files from the camera and do everything I need to do within PS CS3 and then print them? Thanks for the replies and your patience!
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sniper

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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2008, 09:38:26 am »

Lightroom and photoshop are two different animals, lightroom is ideal for quick basic editing, colour/exposure etc and also for keeping track of your images, photoshop is much much more!, with it you can alter images and create your own, you can swop parts of a pic around etc, but it's not as easy for quick or batch editing.  
Both use the same raw conversion engine so there should be no difference in quality there.
Best bet is to download the trial versions and see which best suits your situation, as above Elements will do a pretty good job at a lot less cost.  Wayne
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Dale_Cotton

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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2008, 10:53:50 am »

Dave Haze wrote:
Quote
If I get PS CS3 can't I just download my raw files from the camera and do everything I need to do within PS CS3 and then print them?
Yes, you are correct that you can do all that in CS3, but also in PS Elements, since both include Adobe Camera Raw and both have printing modules.

So the short answer to your original question: I concur with Gene, Jacopo, and Sniper. From what you've told us of your needs and budget, you don't need a new raw converter and could stick with DPP or use Adobe Camera Raw that's free with Adobe Photoshop Elements or Photoshop Creative Suite, if you choose to buy either of those.

The problem is your questions cover so much ground that you'll always have a nagging uncertainty if you simply take this advice blindly. Providing the required background needs a complete web page article to answer fully. (I don't recall seeing such a thing, so you may have inspired me to start putting one together to throw up on my own site.)

For now, read as much of the following as you have patience for...

A fundamental question is whether you need anything more than DPP. I don't know whether you started with digital photography, but most of us have at least some idea what a slide is. For several decades, until digital came along, many photographers shot colour slide film (AKA transparencies) and projected the slides or sold them commercially, with no intervening editing process whatsoever. Exposure and framing were either spot-on or the slide was tossed in the trash - there was no middle ground. If the romance and/or macho mindset of this approach appeals to you, then DPP (or most any raw converter) would be all you'd ever need for post-processing. Using a raw converter would be roughly equivalent to doing your own lab work - developing the film, getting the colour balance right, etc.

However, even those who shot slide film as a business necessity, must have almost literally shed tears at having to toss a certain few slides that would have been once-in-a-lifetime masterpieces ... except for that contrail in the sky or that alien's kiss of green lens flare or that inappropriate blur of subject motion.

This brings us to the fundamental distinction between global edits and local edits. In general, raw converters in providing only or mainly global editing. This means you can change the contrast, white balance, etc., but all such changes affect the image as a whole. If you want to make a change to a particular portion of the image - to get rid of a contrail or discarded Coke can - this is called a local edit, and for this you need to go beyond raw converters to use an editing app. Local editing is also used in art photography to maximize the visual appeal of an image - for example, to reduce the saturation of just the aspen yellows in a fall scene. In spirit this goes back to the dodging and burning of darkroom tradition.

If you feel you will want to do at least occasional local editing, then you'll need an editor app. The ones I know of are Adobe Photoshop CS (currently CS3), Adobe Photoshop Elements, Corel Paintshop Pro, Gimp, and Picture Window Pro. In terms of editing Photoshop CS may well be more than you'll ever need; but it also includes a photo printing module that I'm not sure can be equaled in any other product, since it has extensive support for something called colour management and soft proofing. Apparently, the stand-alone printing app, QImage, has both of these capabilities but I believe only runs on Windows computers. Nevertheless, this level of printing support may actually be counterproductive at first, due to some inherent complexities that await you down the road like a well hidden minefield.

So this is why Photoshop Elements is a good suggestion if you decide you want to do local edits: Anything you learn about using it will apply directly to Photoshop CS should you later upgrade (you'll have to research the options on adobe.com); plus it contains all the editing tools you'll need for some time to come. Another option would be to buy Photoshop CS version 1 on eBay or the like if the price is right. (I personally prefer CS1 to CS3 regardless of price).

If you don't see yourself getting into local edits, you could simply stick with DPP and add QImage for printing or even use something free like Picasa to get your pictures on paper.

Some more background: there are software apps that specialize in one function but try to do that one function better than multi-function tools like raw converters and local editors do. Some of the most common specializations are noise reduction, sharpening, re-sampling (AKA interpolating for enlarging and reducing image size), as you mention, printing, and file management. These are accessory items like a luggage rack or air conditioner are for a car. Most raw converters and local editors already include basic noise reduction, sharpening and re-sampling modules. So the specialized tools aren't essential for beginners; and as you get up to speed you'll develop a better sense of what products are out there and whether you need their services.

Finally, there are hybrid apps, like Adobe Lightroom and Apple Aperture. These combine raw conversion with file management, printing, and some other goodies, like slide show production. I use and like Lightroom, but what it doesn't provide is local editing. A good part of its $300US price tag goes to its extensive file management module, which is something you say you don't need, given your low volume of image file production.
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01af

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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2008, 12:19:51 pm »

One big plus in favour of Photoshop (and mostly, Photoshop Elements, too) is the fact that there are bazillions of all kinds of literature, articles, tutorials, actions, scripts about the art and the tricks of the trade of image processing which all refer to Photoshop as the software base. So with Photoshop, the learning curve---for beginners as well as for sophisticated users---will be flatter and smoother than with any other image-processing software. Except you're a hard-core autodidact who won't read any literature.

Of course, there's literature for, say, Paintshop Pro and Gimp, too ... but it's less common and covers less ground. Think of Dan Margulis' Photoshop Lab Color, for example. And a lot of stuff written with Photoshop in mind can be 'translated' into other program's user interfaces somehow ... but that's not always easy, particularly when the stuff is beyond beginner's level.

-- Olaf
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davehaze

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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2008, 07:43:39 pm »

I think I would like or maybe even need to do local editing eventually so I may as well plan on getting some version of PhotoShop. Thanks for all the helpful responses and advice, any good sites or sources to educate oneself on using PS? Thanks!
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David Sutton

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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2008, 02:01:48 am »

Quote
I think I would like or maybe even need to do local editing eventually so I may as well plan on getting some version of PhotoShop. Thanks for all the helpful responses and advice, any good sites or sources to educate oneself on using PS? Thanks!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I was using Paintshop Pro quite successfully (I thought) but felt if I wanted to do my best with my camera I had to be able to talk to other photographers at their level, without having to try to translate what the were showing me into some other software. After buying CS3 and thus being forced to to start to learn to use it I've also seen a dramatic improvement in what I've been printing (no real surprise I guess  ).
I found the  [a href=\"http://www.lynda.com/]http://www.lynda.com/[/url] tutorials very useful. If you buy one it will keep you going a long while. Most things at http://www.radiantvista.com/ have been a great help. Also subscribing to a monthly magazine and working through the tutorials in it help me set goals. I get the UK magazine "Digital Photo" and always seem to find something new to learn, but there are lots of other publications out there. And this site has a wealth of information if you are willing to look for it. Good luck. Be prepared for a steep learning curve. Cheers, David
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