Another Leaf to Add to the Tea

[Mark D Segal]

Michael,

An excellent and far-reaching think-piece, with credible prognostics about where the industry is heading and what may become more or less useful to its customers.

But there is one important element not covered - called SERVICE. Clearly, whether looking at DSLRs or printers or other equipment, the industry is becoming more competitive and the feature sets more homogenuous - give or take a few unique features of this or that model of equipment. So product differentiation will turn from being feature-dominated  to quality and service dominated.

Manufacturers who charge big bucks for items that embed second-rate design and slip-shod quality control and then provide crummy after-sales service will be punished because their technical prowess will no longer protect them. The market may become differentiated between corporations which live in bubbles versus corporations with out-reach to their client groups and tangibly good after sales support. I'm not going to name any names here, but many readers of this Forum will have their own views about who falls more or less within which category. One only needs to read the various threads as well as other Forums to see that the tendancies are becoming defined.

If increased competition and growing technical homogeneity puts more discipline into quality assurance and more effort into after-sales support particularly amongst those who are wanting in these areas, this will be yet another dimension of improvement to which we consumers can look forward.

[Christopher Sanderson]

... homogenuous...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172857\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

that's 'disingenuously homogeneous' right?  

[DarkPenguin]

Eventually the chinese will make a printer or a dslr and then the price will drop to nothing and you'll get NO service and a really cheap camera.

[Mark D Segal]

that's 'disingenuously homogeneous' right? 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172860\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Damn - there should be a spell-check utility on these boards!  

[bernie west]

Eventually the chinese will make a printer or a dslr and then the price will drop to nothing and you'll get NO service and a really cheap camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172866\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree.  There is a term to describe what will happen (and what has been happening to a degree for some time now): A race to the bottom.

[BernardLanguillier]

Eventually the chinese will make a printer or a dslr and then the price will drop to nothing and you'll get NO service and a really cheap camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172866\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not sure. The complexity is such that it couldn't happen too fast, and in 5 years from now it will cost more to manufacture in China than in other South East Asian countries.

Besides, even Sony needs years to build a system that is remotely credible, I don't see why Chinese investors would want to go the DSLR route, there are many other domains of human activity where money can be made a lot more easily.

Cheers,
Bernard

[LoisWakeman]

Damn - there should be a spell-check utility on these boards! 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172870\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It's called Firefox  

[Mark D Segal]

Not sure. The complexity is such that it couldn't happen too fast, and in 5 years from now it will cost more to manufacture in China than in other South East Asian countries.

Besides, even Sony needs years to build a system that is remotely credible, I don't see why Chinese investors would want to go the DSLR route, there are many other domains of human activity where money can be made a lot more easily.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well spoken Bernard - I think this is exactly right. However given the size of the Chinese economy and its growing diversification and technological progress,  it wouldn't surprise me to see the eventual development of one or more lines of Chinese DSLRs and lenses - but I agree - it would take time, cost even them large bundles of money, there are easier ways of making a buck and they are very adept at identifying and pursuing them.

As for the indusrtry "racing to the bottom" - I don't agree with Bernie West - we've had an uninterrupted recent history of exponential progress with the technological development of digital imaging - and this is something we shouldn't just overlook. Billions of R&D have been invested in this field; it needs a combination of large volumes of lower-priced mass-market merchandise along with much smaller volumes of higher-priced professional merchandise to generate the cash flow sustaining the range of product development which caters to all market segments. The various hands feed eachother in complex ways. Slinging about slogans like "race to the bottom" I think vastly over-simplifies and misrepresents the commercial and technological realities of this industry group.  

The point of my original post, to bring this discussion back on topic, is that once the hardware solutions offered by the various competitors begin to look very similar, discriminating consumers will increasingly differentiate brands on criteria of quality assurance and after-sales service; from where we stand now, some are much better at it than others, and I would expect the ones who continue to neglect this dimension will pay for that mistake. If so, it means there is more likely to be a "race to the top". but the devil is in the details and it will likely play differently in different segments of the market.

[Mark D Segal]

It's called Firefox 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172962\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Lois, but I'm on I.E. 7 for better or worse! Anyhow I could compose these things in Word, spell-check them there and import them here - but that's real effort!  

[sidfrisby]

Thanks Lois, but I'm on I.E. 7 for better or worse! Anyhow I could compose these things in Word, spell-check them there and import them here - but that's real effort! 
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi there

There is a free program that works well with IE&. I use it all the time: [a href=\"http://www.iespell.com/]http://www.iespell.com/[/url]

Best wishes

[Mark D Segal]

Hi there

There is a free program that works well with IE&. I use it all the time: http://www.iespell.com/

Best wishes
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172970\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sid - many thanks - I'll check it out - obviously made for people like me! Good to see yet again how L-L can be such a good-natured and helpful place - be it in photography or spelling!

[BJL]

Eventually the chinese will make a printer or a dslr ...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172866\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There are already DSLR's made in China, and Thailand, and I think also Vietnam. Olympus makes all its DSLR's in China now (though with critical components made in Japan I believe). Nikon makes everything up to the D300 in Thailand (again with critical components from Japan?), so only the D3 is "made in Japan".

[DarkPenguin]

replace "make" with "market".

[Jay Kaplan]

I have a Samsung LCD monitor and was made in China!

[BernardLanguillier]

There are already DSLR's made in China, and Thailand, and I think also Vietnam. Olympus makes all its DSLR's in China now (though with critical components made in Japan I believe). Nikon makes everything up to the D300 in Thailand (again with critical components from Japan?), so only the D3 is "made in Japan".
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173098\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The point is not whether it is manufacturerd in China, Thai or another lower cost country. And I am not talking about the fact that considering Thai and China to be the same is about as accurate as comparing the US to Guatemala...

The point is the company that designs, markets and sells the product. To what extend do they want to be perceived as being accountable in the long run.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Tim Gray]

In addition to 'service' there's another dimension that could be a bsis of competition and that's the 'long tail' of features and functionality configurations.  

What if I were willing to pay something for the ability to configure a camera to my requirements?  Eg: weatherproofing option A (eg a '1'), resolution 12 mpx, af performance B (eg: 5d), ISO performance C (eg: up to 1600), APS H etc. etc.  ?

[BernardLanguillier]

In addition to 'service' there's another dimension that could be a bsis of competition and that's the 'long tail' of features and functionality configurations. 

What if I were willing to pay something for the ability to configure a camera to my requirements?  Eg: weatherproofing option A (eg a '1'), resolution 12 mpx, af performance B (eg: 5d), ISO performance C (eg: up to 1600), APS H etc. etc.  ?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173134\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That would cost you a lot of money, believe me.

The wealth of variants is one of the major cost contributors to the cost of designing cars, and you would not believe to what extend it affects the whole process and organization of the companies.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the ability to configure a product as often a negative impact on the overall compactness of a design. Look at the new Mac Book Air... very compact but you cannot remove the battery and the HD is max 80GB...

Configurable cameras would overall be bulkier.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Tim Gray]

That would cost you a lot of money, believe me.

The wealth of variants is one of the major cost contributors to the cost of designing cars, and you would not believe to what extend it affects the whole process and organization of the companies.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the ability to configure a product as often a negative impact on the overall compactness of a design. Look at the new Mac Book Air... very compact but you cannot remove the battery and the HD is max 80GB...

Configurable cameras would overall be bulkier.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173143\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Certainly you're right in the near future, but my "what if" is more in the context of where we might be 5 years out.   Also, even if more expensive, this does add another competitive dimension.  Surely we're beyond Henry Ford's maxim: "you can have any color you want as long as it's black".   Lastly, I don't think a configurable (and here I mean configurable in the manufacturing context, not plug and play at the consumer level) camera is _necessarily_  any bulkier.  In any event it would be the market that would determine the trade off between economics (which is really the driver of the 'bulkiness' factor) and the ability to have a multiplicity of models.  

FWIW, I think that if this business model ever came to market it would be as a disruptive innovation, not from the current market leaders.  It would start 'barely good enough' at the low end of the market and work it's way up the technology trajectory from there.

[bernie west]

Slinging about slogans like "race to the bottom" I think vastly over-simplifies and misrepresents the commercial and technological realities of this industry group.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172963\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You're probably right, and I was a bit quick in my flippancy (is that a word?).  I guess what I was saying will probably apply more to the point and shoot market.  I suspect at the lower end, these cameras will become more or less disposable from the time they are bought.  This is already happening in other markets, and I don't see any reason why it won't happen with digital cameras.  Ultimately the mass market will vote with their feet, with price as their primary consideration.  Unfortunately, long-term thinking greater than the next year or two isn't one of humanity's greatest traits.  Quality control and quality of post-sale service will always fall down the list of most people's criterion.

[Ray]

But there is one important element not covered - called SERVICE. Clearly, whether looking at DSLRs or printers or other equipment, the industry is becoming more competitive and the feature sets more homogenuous - give or take a few unique features of this or that model of equipment. So product differentiation will turn from being feature-dominated  to quality and service dominated.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172857\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark,
Aren't we progressing to a situation where all products are so modular that servicing is easy? Replace the module where the fault lies or replace the entire unit. Done! In fact, is there any reason why future cameras cannot have self -diagnostic circuitry to facilitate this process. Perhaps some products already have this.

I was very impressed with the Canon Service Centre in Bangkok. The mirror in my 5D came off its mount. If I'd had a tube of superglue with me at the time (I was taking lots of bracketed shots at Ancient City), I might have been tempted to glue it back on. In fact, I figured that's what the Canon service guys would probably do.

Not at all! They replaced the entire mirror housing, including prism and lens mount, and returned the defective part to me all nicely wrapped in a special Canon bag.

Whilst collecting my repaired 5D, I got talking to a European whom I'd noticed patiently waiting for something. It turned out he was waiting for his Canon P&S camera to be repaired on the spot. He'd just arrived from Norway where the Canon service people wanted to charge 9,000 Baht to repair his camera, which he thought was too much and in any case they were not able to do the repair before his departure. Here in Bangkok, they were repairing it for 2,500 Baht and doing it while he waited.

This Canon service centre in Bangkok seems better organised than any bank. Depending on whether you're bringing in a camera for repair or collecting a camera that's been repaired, you take the appropriate numbered ticket and wait your turn. There are so many assistants behind a long counter, you don't have to wait long.