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Author Topic: Michaels comments about MFD  (Read 51819 times)

John_Black

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #80 on: February 08, 2008, 12:40:54 am »

Quote
someone always brings a dog.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173155\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the laugh!
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Graham Mitchell

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #81 on: February 08, 2008, 01:51:04 am »

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someone always brings a dog.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173155\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hehe, I used to use a stylist who brought her dog everywhere. I kept telling her: dogs, cables and light stands don't mix. Fortunately it was pretty lazy and liked to lie down under my tripod
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thsinar

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #82 on: February 08, 2008, 01:56:04 am »

... and I had one food stylist who brought his huge Danish: he ate all the freshly cooked cakes prepared for the shots!

 


Quote
Hehe, I used to use a stylist who brought her dog everywhere. I kept telling her: dogs, cables and light stands don't mix. Fortunately it was pretty lazy and liked to lie down under my tripod
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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stefan marquardt

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #83 on: February 08, 2008, 02:45:38 am »

Quote
... and I had one food stylist who brought his huge Danish: he ate all the freshly cooked cakes prepared for the shots!

 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173228\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


and this setter (which was not supposed to be in the shoot)  didn´t want to part from it´s owner (which was unfortunately the model)

[attachment=5062:attachment]
stefan
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stefan marquardt
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samuel_js

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #84 on: February 08, 2008, 04:28:24 am »

     

[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Sleeeeep nooooowwwwwww...[/span]
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thsinar

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #85 on: February 08, 2008, 04:32:20 am »

Are you fine Samuel?

Thierry

Quote
     

[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Sleeeeep nooooowwwwwww...[/span]

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173240\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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samuel_js

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #86 on: February 08, 2008, 06:11:56 am »

Quote
Are you fine Samuel?
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173241\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Dear Thieeeeeerry.... I'm not Samuel. I'm Saaaaaaruman the white. Samuel has been possessed until this thread diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiies. I tried to register but my Comodore from the Third Era crashed unexpected... So I'm using this man's  loooooogin until Michael develop support for ancient syyyyyyystems....[/span]
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thsinar

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #87 on: February 08, 2008, 06:17:35 am »

that's what I feared!

Quote
Dear Thieeeeeerry.... I'm not Samuel. I'm Saaaaaaruman the white. Samuel has been possessed until this thread diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiies. I tried to register but my Comodore from the Third Era crashed unexpected... So I'm using this man's  loooooogin until Michael develop support for ancient syyyyyyystems....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173251\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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mcfoto

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #88 on: February 08, 2008, 08:07:32 am »

Quote
Phase just laid off 20% of their work force in DK, mostly on the software side.  their Alliance with Microsoft is turning into an acquisition by Microsoft. 

Phase One, the DB portion, is for sale for $20,000,000, not very much in my opinion.

Phase One just cancelled a huge order with Kodak for 39mp sensors, sources say, and prices show, that they over extended themselves in their trade in/ups and have way too many of the non-plus backs in inventory to sell.

For the first time ever, Broncolor has published their own catalogue in the US, I hear they are distancing themselves from Sinar due to the inevitable demise of their MFDB systems.

These are the recent "Tea Leaves" I've read
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173131\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well
If Microsoft is involved I think that would be a HUGE advantage to Phase if TRUE!!!!!!!!!!
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Denis Montalbetti
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gregkingsbi

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #89 on: February 08, 2008, 10:56:22 am »

Quote
Did Broncolor publish their own catalogue in the US?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173141\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dear All,
No, Broncolor did not publish their own catalog in the US.  Sinar, Broncolor and Foba all produce wonderful catalogs and brochures in many languages including english.  In recent years we have included more of these in our mailings as to not duplicate efforts.  I hope this clears up any confusion.  
Sincerely,
Greg King
Vice President
Sinar Bron Imaging
USA
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Greg King
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Sean H

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #90 on: February 08, 2008, 11:25:42 am »

That was really good Samuel !!!
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amsp

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #91 on: February 08, 2008, 12:18:40 pm »

Quote
Well
If Microsoft is involved I think that would be a HUGE advantage to Phase if TRUE!!!!!!!!!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173264\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Microsoft and P1 are already in a strategic partnership and have been since last year. But as for Microsoft buying P1 I think is a huge steaming pile of bs.
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lance_schad

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #92 on: February 08, 2008, 01:01:35 pm »

Quote
Phase just laid off 20% of their work force in DK, mostly on the software side.  their Alliance with Microsoft is turning into an acquisition by Microsoft. 

Phase One, the DB portion, is for sale for $20,000,000, not very much in my opinion.

Phase One just cancelled a huge order with Kodak for 39mp sensors, sources say, and prices show, that they over extended themselves in their trade in/ups and have way too many of the non-plus backs in inventory to sell.

For the first time ever, Broncolor has published their own catalogue in the US, I hear they are distancing themselves from Sinar due to the inevitable demise of their MFDB systems.

These are the recent "Tea Leaves" I've read
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am not sure where you got your information from , but I heard the reduction in workforce at Phase One was the extra staff that was hired last year( I think it was right around this time in 2007 in as stated in a press release in their archives) to get them out of the backorder situation when they launched the Plus series. They are out of their backorder situation now and did not require the staff because production is caught up.

Also I don't see it as a bad thing that PhaseOne put a promotion together to lower the cost of their refurbished backs. They are putting excellent technology into the hands of people who might not have been able to afford it before.
The promotions on the refurbished backs have generated a lot of interest for people considering the move back to Medium Format that have previously went the DSLR route. This is because the prices are more affordable (earlier in the thread I think someone comment about how expensive all backs were except the ZD, now the price of entry has been lowered by PhaseOne). Case in point we have P21's and P20's for prices right below and above what some of the new DSLRS are going for.
The refurbished units are also an investment because you can upgrade them after 12 months in the normal PhaseOne upgrade program. So like TMARK mentioned when he made his decision to purchase a PhaseOne back over the Mamiya, one of the key factors was the fact that the PhaseOne has historically has held its value and they have always lead the industry in loyalty programs for existing users. So it not only was a tool that fit his needs, but an investment.

One more thing from what I have heard was that  PhaseOne has had record revenue and profits over the past 4 years including 2007 . Also in  all my years dealing with and working for a Danish company the management has always followed up any financial comments with "anyone can get our financial reports, they are public in Denmark". So these numbers are somewhere out there publicly.

I would have to guess that PhaseOne is worth a lot more than 20,000,000. Some people are not aware but not only do they manufacture hardware and develop /market software, they have a great deal of intellectual property that is used by others.

Anyway who knows what the future holds for Medium Format Digital, but I have been involved in the industry since I think it was 1992 selling Leaf DCB's at that time(not really selling to many in those days,but actually demonstrating and breaking my back lugging Quadra 950's and big 21" CRTs around!). People would always ask why I was doing this and spending so much time with MF digital, there is no future with it. They would always say that there would be  technology around the corner that is a fraction of the cost and everyone will adopt it and it will be a commodity. Well it is 16 years later and I am still involved! I do believe there will always be a market for Medium Format, but what will the size be and who will be involved? Those are questions that we can all speculate on, but honestly what good does speculating do? My opinion and hopes are that all the manufacturers will prosper and be around, so there are choices for the users. Each of the products have their unique merits. Also competition between the brands keeps prices fair and development moving forward. Competition is GOOD!

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Phase One Dealer of the Year
305-534-5701 office
305-394-3196 cell
877-217-9870
[a href=\"http://www.captureintegration.com]Capture Integration , Phase One Dealer[/url]
lance@captureintegration.com
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 09:58:44 pm by lance_schad »
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LANCE SCHAD - DIGITAL TRANSITIONS

uaiomex

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #93 on: February 08, 2008, 07:59:54 pm »

Lance:
Very nice settling words. And also true, well, at least I concour with you.

In Mexico a popular saying goes: "El Sol sale para todos"

"The sun shines for everyone"

Best

Eduardo
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TechTalk

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #94 on: February 08, 2008, 08:49:49 pm »

For those curious about the size of the companies being discussed,
Some quick Phase One facts:

2004
Total Income: 39.5 Million U.S. Dollars (203M DKK)
Pre-Tax Earnings: 1.3 Million USD (6.5M DKK)
Equity: 9.5 Million USD (49.1M DKK)
Employees (Worldwide): 73

2005
Total Income: 41 Million U.S. Dollars (209.7M DKK)
Pre-Tax Earnings: 1.8 Million USD (9.4M DKK)
Equity: 11.5 Million USD (59.3M DKK)
Employees (Worldwide): 96

2006
Total Income: 55 Million U.S. Dollars (284.2M DKK)
Pre-Tax Earnings: 8 Million USD (41.5M DKK)
Equity: 7.5 Million USD (38.9M DKK)
Employees (Worldwide): 103

Repeating from a previous post that I made some months ago...  (Link)

The business of selling digital backs has not always been profitable either. You may be surprised to discover that Phase One has operated at a loss in many of the past years. The current CEO was appointed in 2001 and given the task of turning the company around. The group of banks and venture capital firms that owned Phase One wanted to groom the company to take public or sell. In 2002, Phase One diversified by becoming a software company with Capture One for Canon, Nikon and many other cameras. After years of losses, in 2003 Phase One turned a small profit ($350,000 Pre-Tax). 2004 was considerably better and by 2005, the owners were actively trying to find a buyer when they could show three straight years of profit. No buyer was found and in 2006 the company was sold to four current Phase One managers (75% share) and a danish venture capital firm (25% share).

Questions about the future, for which I have no answers:

- Would Microsoft (MS Pro Photo Link) have any desire to acquire Phase One?
- Would Phase One's current owners sell? If so, for how much?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 01:03:21 pm by TechTalk »
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James R Russell

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #95 on: February 09, 2008, 01:04:38 pm »

Quote
Microsoft and P1 are already in a strategic partnership and have been since last year. But as for Microsoft buying P1 I think is a huge steaming pile of bs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173333\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If you talk to the Phase people you will hear a lot of careful information about their alliance with microsoft, but as far as MS owning the company, that didn't happen.

Also if anyone thinks Phase, Leaf, Sinar, or Hasselblad would ever do a deal to go away from the apple platform, they're not thinking too clearly, because we all know that the majority of the imaging world is working on a mac.

Actually what most of us hear is speculative, or second hand at best and I think we all have to be careful about what we post.

Even if we hear it directly from the CEO in today's business world anything can change in a heartbeat.  Who would have ever thought that Jaguar and Land Rover would be owned by a company based in India, so I try to take all of this with a grain of salt and worry more about what I'm doing than what a camera manufacturer might or might not do in the future.

With medium format these are small companies, though larger than most of our studios rumors can do a lot of damage.  Imagine a thread that mentioned your name with the heading Joe Blow Photography . . . is he closing?.

With the web, that sentence immediatly becomes part of the google public domian and probably comes up everytime somebody types in Joe Blow.

I use a lot of digital cameras and backs and have owned even more.  What I use now works for me very well, others for my style of shooting did not, but regardless of what I use, or how much I like the people that work at those companies, I don't wish any of the other brands anything but success.

As a professional, our choices for a long period were getting smaller by the month and now we see in medium format new cameras and backs, in dslrs, new full frame offerings and from my standpoint all of this is not just good, it's great, as options allow all of us to explore new looks and hopefully produce an image we never thought previously possible.

In fact I'm very glad that these companies especially the medium format back makers still have the passion and desire to keep making solutions.

I also applaude Phase for putting their previous P series out there at discount.  Nothing but good can come from increasing the user base of medium format.  It also provides the photographer with a lower cost backup solution, something that medium format needed to address for a long time.

These are other forums are full of the one camera fits all syndrome with constant battles of the Canon will perform the same as a medium format back, or the medium format backs are much superior to any dslr.

In reality all of them, even specfic to the actual brand work differently in capture, intermediate processing down to the final fiinsh of the file and owning 4 brands of digital capture devices, enough lenses to fill up a closet has only proven to me that one camera just can't do everything I want it to do.

I travel a great deal and at times carrying all this equipment makes me wish for a one brand one camera system, but then when I step back and think about it, for most professional photographers one camera, lens, film size never covered all the territories and I doubt if it ever will.


James Russell
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 01:31:59 pm by James R Russell »
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TechTalk

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #96 on: February 09, 2008, 03:00:56 pm »

Mr. Russell's post is excellent! I am in complete agreement with both his words and the reasoning behind them.

I posted the financial information regarding Phase One to provide an example of just how small the medium-format digital market is and also to show that despite the very difficult market that exists, it is possible for a company to make a profit.

I also despise rumors and baseless speculation. They turn otherwise interesting discussions into gossip.

I also loathe speculation about what motivation a company may have for their business decisions. Business decisions are based on a perception and forecast of market trends and how to leverage your company's assets to compete and profit in the future as you see it.

You cannot, however, stop human beings from speculating about the future. It seems to be part of our nature. I simply wish that would be done based on facts and not rumor and gossip.

What the future holds for any of the companies in this market, no one knows. I gave some past history for Phase One to provide a factual background and some context for discussion.

As many in the industry have known for years, until the business was sold to the current owners in 2006, Phase One's business plan was to create an attractive business to sell for the profit of the investors. That was prior to the sale of the company to the current managers. If they still have a desire to sell the company, I have not seen any public discussion of that intention.
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stevesanacore

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #97 on: February 10, 2008, 11:25:49 am »

I just took a look at Sinar and Leaf's offerings and was shocked that they are still only selling backs with 22MP sensors. I have been looking at moving to MF for over a year now and see very few good options. I would think 39MP is the minimum I would want so it leaves out any of the other companies except the following. I will be using the system for very large fine art landscape photography and some commercial architectural work.  I am definitely maxing out my 5D when printing out to 40x80" even with my Leica lenses. A 1Dsmk3 is on the way..... so that will be the final factor when I get to test those images and compare with MF.

 Any advice is appreciated.

1- Phase One with Hasselblad -  I just don't see this having any future at all. And no WA lens.
2- Phase One with Mamiya -  I used to be a Mamiya MF film shooter and never like the camera or lenses that much and I worry about Phase being around in a year or so.
3- Hasselblad H3D - No negatives except the cost and that is just doesn't feel like a Hasse.

My opinions open to comments please. Thanks.
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stevesanacore

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #98 on: February 10, 2008, 11:43:45 am »

Quote
Asuming 60mp backs are annouced from later this year and 39mp or so becomes the new MF "entry level".  One has to ask, who really needs  more than 39mp?  Who "needs" 60mp because 39mp just doesn't cut it? 

I am already a generation behind with a 22mp MF camera that can produce detailed 24 x 36" prints, so I am in no rush to move up a gear.  And as you imply, if we get off the ridiculous merrygoround and step back for a moment, I suspect most of us would be better off spending our time on photography and not spending more money on the diminishing returns of the "new, improved" kit that the manufacturers have to persade us to buy for their own, not our, reasons.

Quentin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172744\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There is a market out there for prints much larger than 24x36".  Size matters. I just hope the prices fall dramatically on the 39MP backs at that time.
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yaya

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Michaels comments about MFD
« Reply #99 on: February 10, 2008, 12:06:35 pm »

Quote
I just took a look at Sinar and Leaf's offerings and was shocked that they are still only selling backs with 22MP sensors. I have been looking at moving to MF for over a year now and see very few good options. I would think 39MP is the minimum I would want so it leaves out any of the other companies except the following. I will be using the system for very large fine art landscape photography and some commercial architectural work.  I am definitely maxing out my 5D when printing out to 40x80" even with my Leica lenses. A 1Dsmk3 is on the way..... so that will be the final factor when I get to test those images and compare with MF.

 Any advice is appreciated.

1- Phase One with Hasselblad -  I just don't see this having any future at all. And no WA lens.
2- Phase One with Mamiya -  I used to be a Mamiya MF film shooter and never like the camera or lenses that much and I worry about Phase being around in a year or so.
3- Hasselblad H3D - No negatives except the cost and that is just doesn't feel like a Hasse.

My opinions open to comments please. Thanks.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[a href=\"http://www.leaf-photography.com/imgs/uploads/afi/leafafi_bro_en.pdf]Leaf AFi brochure[/url]

22, 28 and 33 MP and I recommend testing the 33MP Vs 39MP sensors before discarding the former. It is the only sensor at the moment that lets you exploit the resolution of the Schneider AF-D lenses...

Yair
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