prints darker on Kodak Lustre

[EvoM]

Hi all,

Been using HP ID satin & gloss and HP artist canvas on my Z3100, 44 inch and have no problems getting prints that closely match my Eye1 Display 2 Macbeth calibrated monitor but wanted a new paper to reduce the scratching from handling. The Kodak ID Lustre 260 gsm is good as it's stipple pattern hides finger prints & light scratches better, thus making "customer handled " prints a possibliity.

However, after normal calibration and profile using HP ID Satin as a starting point, the prints are a lot darker, say 1/2 to 2/3rds of a stop. This is unusual as I haven't had any problems with other papers or even some adhesive vinals and plain coated paper that I've tried; all profile and print to what I expect, similar to the soft proof in CS2 Mac.

Has anyone else had a new paper return darker prints, if so, how did you resolve it? I could adjust my monitor to what I see printed on the Kodak paper but then all my other "normal HP papers" prints would be too light!

I also noticed that the profile print from the Z3100 Kodak Lustre colours look different (mostly darker) compared to the HP Satin ID but I figured that's what the profile is for right?

The only thing I can think of doing is somehow alter the Kodak Lustre profile..but not sure if that's possible or the right thing to do anyway!

I am also going to update to the latest drivers/software on the Z3100 but I don't think it will resovle this issue anyway.

Any insights greatly appreciated!!!

Evo

[EvoM]

Re updates; Can anyone tell me if the latest firmware/driver Z3100 updates for Mac (10.4. are safe? PPC. Ethernet connection.

Evo

[Geoff Wittig]

I had the same experience profiling Harman FB AL gloss paper with my Z3100; colors are very good, but overall "exposure" of prints made with the resulting profile is visibly darker than normal. This had me wondering if somehow the surface gloss of the paper was fooling the i-one spectro into producing a profile that is darker to tone down the reflectivity.

Anyway, my solution was to produce a simple curves adjustment layer in Photoshop that got the print to match the monitor. Now I just drag that curves layer onto any image I'm printing on that paper, and all is well.

[walter.sk]

You don't mention whether the darker print shows up during softproofing in Photoshop.  If it does (it should,) you might try an adjustment while viewing the original and a softproofed duplicate, and sending the corrected duplicate to the printer.

[EvoM]

Thanks Geoff & Walter for your thoughts.

Last night did the upgrade of firmware et all and all went without a hitch, which was a relief after an earlier upgrade last year was not so great. I'm hoping this may somehow help but it shouldn't make any difference as it was printing correctly on other HP papers anyway.

Yes, it does look correct soft proofing in CS2 so I know that wasn't the problem either. I can and did do a curve adjustment but of course this is really fudging around the problem and doesn't solve the fundamentals and it's a bit of guess work isnt it. I even tried reprofiling the Kodak lustre again just incase I got a bad profile but it's still the same. It's interesting Geoff's coment about it being fooled by the papers surface gloss as it has a more pronounce glint due to it's stipple pattern so maybe there's something in that.

I wonder if anyone else has made a profile for Kodak Lustre ID 260 gsm and could let me try it, particularly if they have APS to see if that helps. There's nothing on the wiki for that paper.

I'll let you know if I find any answers.

Evo

[EvoM]

Spoke to a tech today (not HP) and he suggested trying a Gloss profile as a starting point instead of the HP Premuim ID Satin profile I based my Kodak Lustre profile on. Will try this tomorrow and will report back my findings.

He also suggested if the Kodak paper's glint did affect the Z3100's spectro he thought the profile would print lighter not darker as it would have relected more light back!

Anyway, the idea of using a gloss profile to base it on may counteract the glint or glossyness of the Kodak Lustre which does have a more pronounced stipple than the HP ID Satin.

Does anyone have any theories on the reflectivity affecting the Z3100 built in Spectro?

cheers, Evo.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Spoke to a tech today (not HP) and he suggested trying a Gloss profile as a starting point instead of the HP Premuim ID Satin profile I based my Kodak Lustre profile on. Will try this tomorrow and will report back my findings.

He also suggested if the Kodak paper's glint did affect the Z3100's spectro he thought the profile would print lighter not darker as it would have relected more light back!

Anyway, the idea of using a gloss profile to base it on may counteract the glint or glossyness of the Kodak Lustre which does have a more pronounced stipple than the HP ID Satin.

Does anyone have any theories on the reflectivity affecting the Z3100 built in Spectro?

cheers, Evo.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No experience and no theory for this paper but the new firmware and driver allows you to make an inklimit reduction from 100% to 80% on one of the generic media presets and you can save that as a custom media preset which can be calibrated and profiled. If you get the impression (or can measure) that your existing calibration target has a too dark black greyscale ramp near the end, no increase of Dmax from some of the last steps to black then that is a first step.
If the black shadow part is alright but the overall print too heavy it is a gamma issue in ink lay down and another choice of media preset like the tech suggested may help. I don't think his theory on the gloss texture is correct though. If there's a difference between the softproof and the print you can also use a correction curve in the advanced color part of the driver to get that equal and save that printer setup as a whole. (Even use that gamma curve on the targets for calibration and profiling I guess but didn't check that) If you can edit the profile it can be done with editing both softproof side or printer (device) side or separately when there's a difference.

All steps in the order as described here and the first steps are better than the last steps so if you reach your goal with the first ones then forget the rest.

You could also check whether drying time for this paper in calibration and profiling may play a role. The HP paper ink combinations usually settle fast and density + chroma values stay.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]

[Harry Carpenter]

I use Kodak 260gsm lustre all the time. The starting point I use now is HP pro satin or HP premium satin.
I calibrate with a spyder2 but still find that the prints can be ( not always ) slightly darker and colder ( blue ) in tone. This could be an issue with the spyder though.
Prints are always pretty close but almost never exact, it seems to depend upon the subject matter.
The kodak paper is still incredibly easy to scratch and mark, but I have found that if it is left for a week it does become more resistant to marking.

[EvoM]

Thanks Ernst & Harry. Will try a few combos soon as too busy today.

Harry, after using HP Premium ID Satin, I find that the Kodak ID Lustre is much more robust and scratches less easily, that's the main reason I'm trying it. It's not perfect though and can still certainly scratch or mark much more easily than say a RA4 Kodak Endura print.

I don't want to have to spray "all" my prints or laminate so I'm trying different papers hoping to find a better combination with the Z3100.

Evo