What shutter speed is "ok" to shoot freehand?

[dwdallam]

What shutter speed would you feel comfortable shooting freehand to create a keeper image, all other things being up to the grade (such as composition, subject, etc.)

I understand that different types of photography have different requirements, such as when I shoot poeple I hand hold the camera at as low as 1/120 free hand with a 5D and 70-200--one handed.

I still wonder what you all think regarding landscape and other types of photography.

A friend of mine shot a keeper of a bee landing on a flower at 1/800th. It was sharp and dead on for focus on the bee itself, for instance.

Still I wonder what shutter speed will eliminate "normal" hand shake using somethiing like a 5D or MKIII and a 24-70L lens, since this is a really good workhorse lens for walk around and fast shooting, when you can't really set up a tripod.

I also understand that most landscape will be done with a setting or rising sun, or other light limiting circumstances, which necessitates a tripod.

Anyway, let the sun shine.

[kaelaria]

The general rule is the reciprical of the focal length (don't forget to compensate for your crop factor if present).  I then add one more step.

[dwdallam]

The general rule is the reciprical of the focal length (don't forget to compensate for your crop factor if present).  I then add one more step.
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YES!

And the rules of photography, if followed, will always result in world class images!

Le the sun shine in baby!

But seriously, I doubt any anyone is going to hand hold a 50mm lens on a MKIII with a shutter speed of 1/50th of a second and get sharp landscapes. I could be wrong, I could be wrong.

 A quick search produced this information:
[a href=\"http://www.enginova.com/Minimum%20Shutter%20Speed.htm]http://www.enginova.com/Minimum%20Shutter%20Speed.htm[/url]

[DarkPenguin]

That is a general rule.  I usually use it.  I'll also do poor man's IS if I want to be sure.  But if I really want something sharp I try to get up into the 1/1000 range.

[DarkPenguin]

YES!

And the rules of photography, if followed, will always result in world class images!

Le the sun shine in baby!

But seriously, I doubt any anyone is going to hand hold a 50mm lens on a MKIII with a shutter speed of 1/50th of a second and get sharp landscapes. I could be wrong, I could be wrong.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171917\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's why you use a tripod.

[dwdallam]

That's why you use a tripod.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171919\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

And that's not the question.

[DarkPenguin]

And that's not the question.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171922\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You were given an answer by kaelaria and you mocked him.  So I'm not real sure what you're asking.

[Christopher]

You were given an answer by kaelaria and you mocked him.  So I'm not real sure what you're asking.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171924\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Canon lens with IS the same exposure is all right so: IS on 200mm lens so 1/200th is fine. Now if you really want to make sure I would go to 1/320 with a 1DsMk3

Without IS with a 1DsMk3 I really would double the focal length so a 200mm lens minimum 1/400th better 1/500th

[dwdallam]

You were given an answer by kaelaria and you mocked him.  So I'm not real sure what you're asking.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171924\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wasn't mocking him, I was jesting because I thought his reply was funny, since it is so obvious. We're not in any competition here, and remember this is text, so it's not always as one sees it.

And no, Kealeria did not give me "The Answer." You would know this if you did a simple search on Google on the topic itself, since there is a lot of debate on the subject. I didn't post this question to get information easily attainable by typing into Google: Minimum Shutter Speed.

I wanted real life experiences related to that question from actual people here on this forum.

Is all this explanation really necessary for this question? I assumed that it would be a given that what I was after was a different perspective from that of a rule? Really, I mean if that were the case about questions, and this is why I found Kealeria's comment amusing, we could all just post "rules" to questions like this one and be done with it, or just Google them and not even use the forum.

[DarkPenguin]

Where did I say that he gave you "The Answer"?

I'm curious as to what you expect to do with this information once you have it.

I wasn't mocking him, I was jesting because I thought his reply was funny, since it is so obvious. We're not in any competition here, and remember this is text, so it's not always as one sees it.

And no, Kealeria did not give me "The Answer." You would know this if you did a simple search on Google on the topic itself, since there is a lot of debate on the subject. I didn't post this question to get information easily attainable by typing into Google: Minimum Shutter Speed.

I wanted real life experiences related to that question from actual people here on this forum.

Is all this explanation really necessary for this question? I assumed that it would be a given that what I was after was a different perspective from that of a rule? Really, I mean if that were the case about questions, and this is why I found Kealeria's comment amusing, we could all just post "rules" to questions like this one and be done with it, or just Google them and not even use the forum.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172100\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[BernardLanguillier]

There is no ONE answer to your question. It depends on:

- the body and lens combo used
-> some bodies have more or less vibratig mirrors/shutters, some bodies require a deeper push on the trigger which can generate vibrations,...
-> some lenses have a structure that affect negatively the overall balance of the combo and compromise the ability to shoot at low speeds hand held,

- the focal lenght in case of zoom lenses,

- the circle of confusion you are shooting for, which depends on how large you intend to print your image (but I assume you are aiming for perfect sharpness when reviewing the image at 100% on screen?)

- The person using the camera. Some people are a lot more stable than others naturally,

- The shooting technique: location of the hands on the lens, breathing timing,...

I shoot with a tripod 90% of the time, but when I don't, I typically set my D3 to A mode with auto ISO set at 1/60 sec when shooting with a 24-70 f2.8 zoom lens. I can afford to stay on the safe side like tihs thanks to the good high ISO image quality of the D3. I find that noise has less impact on image quality up to 3200 ISO than hand shake would.

I get about 95% of tack sharp results when viewed on screen at 100% with these settings.

Cheers,
Bernard

[DarkPenguin]

Physical exertion can make a difference, too.  Where I am during a hike.  What I've had to climb to get there.  All these can impact hand hold time.

[dwdallam]

Where did I say that he gave you "The Answer"?

I'm curious as to what you expect to do with this information once you have it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172107\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My mistake. You didn't say "The Answer," but the finality you put on the rule sounded that way. To answer your other question, what I do with all information: integrate it into my knowledge and see if it can make me a better photographer in the future. Nothing magical.

[dwdallam]

There is no ONE answer to your question. It depends on:

- the body and lens combo used
-> some bodies have more or less vibratig mirrors/shutters, some bodies require a deeper push on the trigger which can generate vibrations,...
-> some lenses have a structure that affect negatively the overall balance of the combo and compromise the ability to shoot at low speeds hand held,

- the focal lenght in case of zoom lenses,

- the circle of confusion you are shooting for, which depends on how large you intend to print your image (but I assume you are aiming for perfect sharpness when reviewing the image at 100% on screen?)

- The person using the camera. Some people are a lot more stable than others naturally,

- The shooting technique: location of the hands on the lens, breathing timing,...

I shoot with a tripod 90% of the time, but when I don't, I typically set my D3 to A mode with auto ISO set at 1/60 sec when shooting with a 24-70 f2.8 zoom lens. I can afford to stay on the safe side like tihs thanks to the good high ISO image quality of the D3. I find that noise has less impact on image quality up to 3200 ISO than hand shake would.

I get about 95% of tack sharp results when viewed on screen at 100% with these settings.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172125\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Bernard, that's a good set of information. Thanks.

[jejv]

> What shutter speed would you feel comfortable shooting freehand to create a keeper image,
> all other things being up to the grade (such as composition, subject, etc.)

Short answer: about 1/5, at about 35-60mm field-of-view.

Does that always give me pixel sharp images ?  No.  But it does give me sharp enough images enough of the time to be worthwhile to me.

Maybe your question should be "What is the lowest shutter speed  that *I* can take good pictures at ?"

Since you have a digital camera with instant review, experiments and practice are cheap.  So have a go, and figure out what the answer is for you !

> - the body and lens combo used
> - the focal lenght in case of zoom lenses,
> - The shooting technique: location of the hands on the lens, breathing timing,...
> - the circle of confusion you are shooting for,

Are you in a sheltered log cabin in the middle of the Rockies ? Or on a trawler in a storm force 10,  a hundred miles south of Iceland ?

The breathing bit seems quite important.  I did try holding my breath, but that just made me tense.  Breathing slowly & deeply seemed the way to go.  I think you need to be relaxed.  But I've never studied it deeply, I don't do rifle shooting, archery, or yoga.  Those kinds of people would probably have something useful to say.

> - the circle of confusion you are shooting for,

I guess we get into this area because tripods or higher shutter speeds are impractical or undesirable for one reason or another, but we think there is a worthwhile, or even striking image to capture.  If the image you capture is striking, who cares if it is sharp to the last pixel ?

See:  http://www.luminous-landscape.com/1photo-p...o-laneway.shtml

If we point and shoot, we at least have a chance of capturing the image, but if we leave our cameras in their bags because the conditions aren't technically good enough, we won't.

John.

[dwdallam]

jejv,

Yes, that makes sense for sure. I used to shoot with a scope years ago, and that training of holding my breath before the shot stuck with me. It REALLY does help.

Try ti this way.
1. Breath in just a little more than normal.
2. Exhale 1/2 the breath and hold at that point.
3. Shoot.

Take two regular breaths before you do it again.

[dobson]

When I'm shooting at my limit for hand-holdability, I usually fire off a couple of shots. One almost always turns out better than the rest. This tells me that there's no specific threshold that will give me acceptable shots. Luck has a lot to do with it at low shutter speeds.

I also believe that the photographer has a huge effect on sharpness in these instances. Find out your own limits. You can probably do it by simply examining your previous photos.

[DarkPenguin]

When I'm shooting at my limit for hand-holdability, I usually fire off a couple of shots. One almost always turns out better than the rest. This tells me that there's no specific threshold that will give me acceptable shots. Luck has a lot to do with it at low shutter speeds.

This is known as "Poor Man's IS".  It works because you have a pretty good chance of firing the shutter at the point where your wobbling is changing direction.  Very useful.

[Er1kksen]

Shooting at equivalent 90mm focal length with my E-330, I'm comfortable down to about 1/5, but using burst mode for "poor man's IS" lets me do longer than 1/2 second, into the 1/1.3 range. Of course, breathing affects this, and I try to do a burst over the course of one long exhale. Usually the sharp one is somewhere right in the middle of the burst. But I find posture to have an even bigger effect on this; by leaning back and resting my elbows on my stomach and keeping the camera tight to my eye it creates a stable platform.

I'm not sure if I would try this with something higher-resolution like a 1ds though.

[DarkPenguin]

Of course, breathing affects this,

Good point.  It is always easier to hold still when dead.