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Author Topic: HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers  (Read 9595 times)

marty m

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« on: January 26, 2008, 04:50:52 pm »

I'm hoping that is falls under the category of "one good turn deserves another."  See my other two detailed reports for participants on the forum on Vista problems with the 3100, and the update on star wheels and rollers.  

I hope that some of you can help me out, in turn.

(1)  What settings are all of you using with the Z3100 for the following

FEEL FREE TO ALSO CONTRIBUTE YOUR SETTINGS FOR ANY OTHER "EXOTIC" PAPERS  -- OR SETTINGS THAT ARE NOT STANDARD AND USE LESS/MORE INK, MORE DRYING TIME, ETC --

* Epson Exhibition Fiber

* Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk

* Harman Gloss FB AI

And also:

Harman Matt FB Mp Paper

Innova FibaPrint Ultra Smooth Gloss

Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta 325

(2)  Why do some of you use "less" or "more" ink in some cases?  I understand that we should use less ink if shadows block up, or the ink can't be absorbed by the paper.  But when do you use "more" ink?  Does more ink always improve the gamut?  I read on the wikki that Fine Art >250 is NOT recommended because the additional ink does more harm than good.  

So do all of you go to the trouble to calibrate and profile all three options with a new paper?  If so, what do you look for to determine what works best?

(3)  I know that Harman Gloss has received glowing reviews on the Luminous main site, but have also heard that it scratches very easily.  Has anyone tried the Harman Matt paper by comparison?

(4)  I also read that the Innova Fibaprint Ultra Smooth Gloss is a problem with marks from star wheels.  Is that the case with the Z3100?  I haven't tried the Innova paper, but read on the forum that it is close to the Epson Exhibition Fiber, and at a fraction of the cost.

(5)  Finally, my last comment is a direct reference to the necessity of reading the HP Tech Bulletin on non-HP papers VERY carefully. If you do that, you'll discover that there is supposed to be a preset for a Fuji "barite" paper.  One customer support rep with HP in Spain told me that they assume that "barite" and "Baryta" are the same.  That suggests that the "barite" preset might work with some of the above papers.  But that preset has NOT yet been released, contrary to the inaccurate information in the Tech Bulletin.

Thanks in advance -- thanks very much -- for any responses!
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 12:32:37 am by marty m »
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Geoff Wittig

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 07:40:54 pm »

I profiled Harman FB AL gloss using the setting Photo Semi-Gloss/Satin Paper (less ink) recommended by Ron H. This worked just fine; the blacks are so deep I can't imagine what would happen with "more ink". On the downside, shadow detail goes dark compared to other profiles I've produced with the built in spectro; I wonder if specular reflections from this extremely glossy paper confused the i-one.
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marty m

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 07:47:47 pm »

Quote
I profiled Harman FB AL gloss using the setting Photo Semi-Gloss/Satin Paper (less ink) recommended by Ron H. This worked just fine; the blacks are so deep I can't imagine what would happen with "more ink". On the downside, shadow detail goes dark compared to other profiles I've produced with the built in spectro; I wonder if specular reflections from this extremely glossy paper confused the i-one.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169851\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks very much!  Really appreciate the info
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marty m

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2008, 10:34:30 pm »

I note that this topic is gettng a fair number of hits, but few responses.  So I'm providing two more that I found in previous threads.  

Note the differing recommendations for Epson Exhibition Fiber


************

USA-Stewart provided this for Epson Exhibition Fiber (this again underscores that knowing how to use the various driver settings is a hit-or-miss guessing game with little guidance from HP.  I've never used the extended drying time option that is used below:

Here's what I have done because EEF is not documented on the Z3100 printer:
(I am using Firmware 6008, HP Utility 3.1, and Driver 5.1)

In the HP Print Monitor choose "manage papers."
Click on the plus sign. This brings up the "Add custom paper" dialogue box.
Type in "Epson Exhibition Fiber". Then click on "Paper Type."

Select "Fine Art Material" and under that select "Fine Art Pearl (more ink)".

Then click on "Change Printing Properties" and under Dry Time select "Extended".
Note that when I calibrated the paper with these settings I did get some roller marks on the calibration sheet. However, I then profiled the paper with "Gloss Enhancer" off.

I printed out of Lightroom and selected "Best Quality", "GE OFF", "More Passes", and "Application managed color."

The resulting prints are excellent with NO roller marks. There seems to be no need for the gloss enhancer with this paper. The paper looks very much like an air dried fiber based print. Some may think it has a little more shine than they are use to, but when I was fiber printing, I learned from photographer Ruth Bernhard that you could steam fiber based prints to bring out more shine if they dried too dull. She said she steamed many of her prints. These EEF prints look to me like fiber based, air dried prints that have been steamed. They are quite beautiful.

If you have done something different and had good results, please let me know.

-Stewart

*****************

And another for Ilford Gold from thierryd:

I'm using the Ilford Gold on sheet and roll with gloss enhancer and without roller mark, until now, on Z3100 with the same selections than Steward.
Dry Time select "Extended".
"Best Quality", "GE ON", "More Passes", and "Application managed color."
I printed many A4, a few A3 but anything bigger until now.
There is cotton gloves inside the roll box, I use them for loading and unloading the roll, and I'm very cautious during 24h for fingerprint on the prints.

*******************

FOLLOW UP ON STEWART:

In the thread on EEF, some have reported that the documentation with EEF recommends using Photo Glossy.  Others have recommended using Epson Luster in the Epson driver.  Schewe stated that it was an error on the part of Epson, and the correct Epson setting is Luster or Luster 260

The equivalent of those in the HP driver would be Photo Gloss or Semi-Gloss/Satin for the equivalent of Epson Luster setting

So what is everyone using with HP?  Pearl, or Photo Gloss or Semi-Gloss/Satin ??

************************

FOLLOW UP ON HARMAN, ALSO POSTED BELOW

Response from Harman tech support:

When using the HARMAN Gloss FB Al Inkjet paper in the HP Z3100 you should use the Photo Gloss and the Standard Ink settings as the basis for building a profile. You may wish to change to the less ink setting dependant on your results, however in the work I have done with the Z3100 the Standard setting worked well.

There have been sporadic reports of customers having difficulties with "star wheel" marks on materials in the Z3100, however this effect has not been limited to any one material. I understand that HP has offered printer modification's where this effect has been present.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 08:47:35 am by marty m »
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Colorwave

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2008, 12:05:10 am »

I see that the two posts you cited both mention extended drying time as a part of the settings.  I was disappointed to discover that this setting only leaves the print hanging out of the machine a little longer before cutting the paper.  Admittedly, I haven't played with it much, but it seems like it has no effect on surface marks to me.  I've yet to screw up a print coming right out of my printer, just by handling them somewhat carefully.  On the other hand, I make an effort to catch as many prints as I can.  I might find extended drying time reasonable insurance if I was letting all my prints fall into the basket.

I just took a moment and counted that I've tried over 20 papers and canvases in my Z, almost all of them photo/fine art papers, but I've only tried the Harman from your list.  Geoff already mentioned my settings, which oddly have given me highly variable results.  Most of the time, the Harman Gloss prints nicely, but there are days when I can't get around pinch roller marks.  It's quite puzzling, as it has very little pattern that I can find.  I'm trying to see if there is a humidity correlation, but there really isn't an obvious smoking gun for me at this point.  I'm still hoping some new pinch rollers will take care of the problem, assuming the Manhattan, err, I mean, Barcelona Project is actually working on a solution.

-Ron H.
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marty m

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2008, 02:20:34 am »

Quote
I've only tried the Harman from your list.  Geoff already mentioned my settings, which oddly have given me highly variable results.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169894\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ron:

You recommend Semi-Gloss/Luster?  Rather than Harman's recommendation of Photo Gloss on their web site?  Have you tried both, and if so, what is the difference?

And why Less Ink rather than the standard setting?

Thanks for the help!
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Colorwave

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2008, 03:11:26 am »

Quote
Ron:

You recommend Semi-Gloss/Luster?  Rather than Harman's recommendation of Photo Gloss on their web site?  Have you tried both, and if so, what is the difference?

And why Less Ink rather than the standard setting?

Thanks for the help!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169907\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
From HP's documentation, the ink limit for Semi-Gloss/Satin is at 36 and the other variables are the same.  Normal Gloss ink limit is 42, more ink is 46, and less ink is 32.  Harman didn't have any suggestions when I first profiled it, and I haven't checked their site in a while to know if they are recommending normal or less ink settings for the gloss paper type.

I have had problems with head strikes from the paper buckling with higher ink loads.  The paper lays very flat until it accepts a little too much ink, at which point it gets big buckles in it. I get very good d-Max, even with with the less ink setting so that part of the mix doesn't seem broken to me.

-Ron H.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 03:14:02 am by Colorwave »
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marty m

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2008, 03:52:07 pm »

Quote
From HP's documentation, the ink limit for Semi-Gloss/Satin is at 36 and the other variables are the same.  Normal Gloss ink limit is 42, more ink is 46, and less ink is 32.  Harman didn't have any suggestions when I first profiled it, and I haven't checked their site in a while to know if they are recommending normal or less ink settings for the gloss paper type.

I have had problems with head strikes from the paper buckling with higher ink loads.  The paper lays very flat until it accepts a little too much ink, at which point it gets big buckles in it. I get very good d-Max, even with with the less ink setting so that part of the mix doesn't seem broken to me.

-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169910\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks again.  I hope others will add to this thread.  Like I said, one good turn deserves another -- for those who were helped out thanks to my posting on rollers and star wheels!
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 03:52:35 pm by marty m »
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marty m

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2008, 08:46:42 am »

I received this response from tech support for Harman papers on the proper settings, and will add it to my posting above:

When using the HARMAN Gloss FB Al Inkjet paper in the HP Z3100 you should use the Photo Gloss and the Standard Ink settings as the basis for building a profile. You may wish to change to the less ink setting dependant on your results, however in the work I have done with the Z3100 the Standard setting worked well.

There have been sporadic reports of customers having difficulties with "star wheel" marks on materials in the Z3100, however this effect has not been limited to any one material. I understand that HP has offered printer modification's where this effect has been present.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 08:48:31 am by marty m »
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USA_Stewart

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2008, 11:47:50 pm »

Marty:   (Regarding printing Epson Exhibition FB paper with HPZ3100 printer)

I am printing with the HP Z3100. To clarify, when selecting "Fine Art Pearl (more ink)" in the HP driver, the carriage height is set to HIGH, the printing black is photo black and the ink limit is 46. If you choose "Photo Gloss Paper (more ink)", the carriage height is set to LOW, the printing black is photo black and the ink limit is 46. The only difference in these two settings is the carriage height. With Epson Exhibition FB paper, I think using a high carriage height prevents head strikes with this thicker paper.

If you are using an HP Z3100 printer, I would suggest that you download the Technical Newsletter from November 2007 entitled: "Working with Other Commercially-available Paper, HP Designjet Z2100 and Z3100 Photo Printer Series" (updated version for Firmware 6.0.0.8. It is a very useful document.

I hope this helps.

-Stewart
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 11:58:05 pm by USA_Stewart »
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ajahuid

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2008, 10:27:42 pm »

Has anyone used the Harmon Matt FB Mp warmtone for color rather than b&w ? How do you like it in comparison to the neutral version with color images?  Also, I'm using a z3100 and would like to
know what media settings to use with the matt paper.  Harman hasn't got a profile for this paper/printer on their site, so I guess I'll get a large enough sample of the paper(13x19, according to HP) to make my own, but what settings to use?

Is the issue of head strikes the same with the matt paper as with the gloss?  

 Any help with these questions is greatly appreciated.

John
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hubicka

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HP Z3100 -- settings for new papers
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2008, 11:11:56 am »

Quote
(4)  I also read that the Innova Fibaprint Ultra Smooth Gloss is a problem with marks from star wheels.  Is that the case with the Z3100?  I haven't tried the Innova paper, but read on the forum that it is close to the Epson Exhibition Fiber, and at a fraction of the cost.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169826\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

All Innova fibaprints shows star wheel marks for me in shadows.  I am waiting for the upgrade kit for about 5 weeks now
Otherwise the Firmware 5.x techletter recommends Fine Art Pearl More Ink for innova papers and it works quite well.  Interestingly new techletter dropped Innova from lists.  Perhaps it is because it shows some bronzing differential that is more visible in Warmtone paper I like better otherwise.  I think I had more luck recalibrating it as "HP Proofing gloss" paper.  it gets same amount of ink and I think the ink layout is more biassed to not use light gray and dark gray inks excessivly that results in less bronzing, but I didn't do throrough comparsion.  I am still waiting for update before using rest of my paper.

Honza
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