Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

All of that preamble gives me the Perfect inroad for this:  If the 5D isn't weather sealed anyway, and APS does not offend, then why not save a big bag o' dough, and put a separate XSi body on every single one of your lenses?  Many news services have already done this with the XTi.  Cringe to your hearts' content, but this makes infinitely more sense than changing lenses on a known dust magnet......  The bottom line is IQ, and you can't show me any advantage the 5D has over the XSi.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171406\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

A very big advantage that the 5D has over every crop-frame DSLR I've had a chance to try is that the full-size viewfinder lets you see a decent image, rather than a dinky little rectangle at the end of a long, dark tunnel. That's the main reason I upgraded from a 10D to a 5D.

If the XSi actually has a good optical viewfinder, then it might be worth considering. I certainly have no objection to anybody else choosing it. But for me, IQ requires that I be able to see what I'm trying to take a picture of.

[dwdallam]

I was just reading all of the upcoming announcements from Nikon, Sony, etc., and I have a new question to ponder:

Why should Canon upgrade any of its cameras at this moment, since they are in the driver's seat, solidly: They have the only FF 21MP 35mm camera, arguably the best prosumer/pro FF 35mm (5D) and no one is slated to challenge them in the next eight months with anything at this level?

If you want better quality and more pixels than the 5D has, you buy the 1DS MKIII for 8K US or you shut your pie hole, cry more, and go home. I'll bet we get no new cameras from Canon until 2009.

I would suggest for those who can wait, to wait. There is just too much going on right now to buy an 8, 000 dollar camera that may be obsolete in one year.

[DarkPenguin]

A very big advantage that the 5D has over every crop-frame DSLR I've had a chance to try is that the full-size viewfinder lets you see a decent image, rather than a dinky little rectangle at the end of a long, dark tunnel. That's the main reason I upgraded from a 10D to a 5D.

If the XSi actually has a good optical viewfinder, then it might be worth considering. I certainly have no objection to anybody else choosing it. But for me, IQ requires that I be able to see what I'm trying to take a picture of.
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Going by the numbers I'm sure it is better than the Xti but it doesn't look great.  The 40D, on the other hand.

The 5D has good frame coverage (96%) but it is only .71x mag with an eyepoint of 20mm.  The 40D by comparison is .95.x mag with a 22mm eyepoint.

In other words the 5D has a pretty crappy viewfinder that is bailed out by the larger format.

When I've compared them there seemed to be little difference.

Now the XSi is 95% coverage with .8x mag and an eyepoint of 19mm.  Better than the Xti but not all that great.

[DonWeston]

"If you want better quality and more pixels than the 5D has, you buy the 1DS MKIII for 8K US or you shut your pie hole, cry more, and go home. I'll bet we get no new cameras from Canon until 2009."

Is this kind of language[attitude] really necessary, no matter what the provocation
was???

[ChrisJR]

My old 5D easily matches my 1D mk3 for IQ and at a substantially lower cost. I have friends with Nikon D300s and 40Ds but the 5D's images just seem nicer.

[dwdallam]

"If you want better quality and more pixels than the 5D has, you buy the 1DS MKIII for 8K US or you shut your pie hole, cry more, and go home. I'll bet we get no new cameras from Canon until 2009."

Is this kind of language[attitude] really necessary, no matter what the provocation
was???
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171507\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Huh, there was no provocation. We're all implicated here.  We all know what we want and Canon hasn't announced it. We want the 5D at 16MPs to be announced. If it isn't and we want more pixels, etc., then we can buy the MKIII or go home, crying. It's a play on words and phraseology.

[DonWeston]

Huh, there was no provocation. We're all implicated here.  We all know what we want and Canon hasn't announced it. We want the 5D at 16MPs to be announced. If it isn't and we want more pixels, etc., then we can buy the MKIII or go home, crying. It's a play on words and phraseology.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171699\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the explanation, and glad that wasn't directed to anyone, just seemed kind of sarcastic in general, and I may be slow, but don't get the "play part" but point taken and time to move on. Your point, obviously, was that none of us got what "we" wanted...some are happy with status quo. Me, I too would be "up" for a new 5D as you described, but would also add, it would be nice if the darn camera came out without focusing issues and other glitches like the original 5D did. Went through 3 bodies before I got one that focused worth a fenig[sp]. Lot of resolution, but not deliverable with the first two samples. Also would be nice if they updated the lens line to have a decent less expensive wide zoom, like in the 17-40mm range. Yada, yada, yada....Went through 3 samples of that one also. Alot of this is why getting a D300 in the meantime has shown me that someone can make a new camera without major issues from the get go. I still miss FF for some things and it will be a battle to see who comes out with a FF model first and have it clean. Will it be a D300FX or a 5D2 and when. Would be nice if it was April like certain rumors mention, but guess we will all find out then if it does. Don't mean to bash Canon as a 40D I own for now has been generally issue free, and will keep it for now, until I see what is next. ...

[kurt765]

I'm going to be saving up for a 5DII or 6D or whatever it's called as my next camera. I hope it comes out this year. I was pretty disappointed that it was not announced at PMA.

-K

[dwdallam]

I'm going to be saving up for a 5DII or 6D or whatever it's called as my next camera. I hope it comes out this year. I was pretty disappointed that it was not announced at PMA.

-K
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173008\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm gonna buy the 1DS MKIII and then I have nothing to second guess except my bank account. It's the best camera canon puts out, and its the best camera in that level. If it sucks, it's still the best thing going at this time, and I want those extra technologies. I'm really tired of cleaning/blowing my 5Ds sensor every two days, or every lens change, for one. I also print at 20x30 and I'm tired of losing images because I'm cropping them so closely at the time I take the picture as to not lose any resolution, later to find out that I actually needed another 5% to make the image. I'd like to have that 5% error margin to frame images, and later crop 3-5% w/o worrying about print quality at 20x30.

And then there is the time where you do have a good image, but it take a 10% aspect  crop to get it. even if the 5D does come out at 16.7MPs, the extra 4MPs is good padding.

For those thinking about doing the MKIII, remember you'll need 8GB cards too, for serious shooting w/o having to change cards.

[Josh-H]

As a new 1DS MKIII owner [only done two shoots with it too date], but long time 5D shooter [had one of the first 5D's in Australia] - I can say it has been worth every $ for the 1DSMKIII and I have zero buyers remorse.

As you say.. its best camera you can currently buy from Canon. And, worth the price of admission in my book for the extra rez, 14 bit over 12, live view, sensor cleaning, uber bright view finder which is just a joy to use, weather sealing, more rugged and the list goes on...

In terms of image quality comparisons between the 1DS MKIII and 5D - well its a no brainer. the 1DSMKIII has about the same noise characteristics as the 5D - so much so that any difference either way is quibbling. But it has boat loads of pixels avaiable for cropping and there is a noticeable benefit in 14 bit.

I have kept my 5D as a second body for now.. but I really cant see it getting much use.

[dwdallam]

As a new 1DS MKIII owner [only done two shoots with it too date], but long time 5D shooter [had one of the first 5D's in Australia] - I can say it has been worth every $ for the 1DSMKIII and I have zero buyers remorse.

As you say.. its best camera you can currently buy from Canon. And, worth the price of admission in my book for the extra rez, 14 bit over 12, live view, sensor cleaning, uber bright view finder which is just a joy to use, weather sealing, more rugged and the list goes on...

In terms of image quality comparisons between the 1DS MKIII and 5D - well its a no brainer. the 1DSMKIII has about the same noise characteristics as the 5D - so much so that any difference either way is quibbling. But it has boat loads of pixels avaiable for cropping and there is a noticeable benefit in 14 bit.

I have kept my 5D as a second body for now.. but I really cant see it getting much use.
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That's one of my main issues--noise. You know something will happen to reduce the noise in that level camera, then we're left holding the bag on that old "Noisey MKIII."

[Mike Chini]

I think Canon would be smart to just put the new 1ds3 chip into a smaller, lighter body.  Maybe take away some speed and a few features.  They'd retain their IQ lead over their competitors and make everyone happy.

[dseelig]

Are you shooting low light, action. where are you shooting in a full frame camera dust is a real enemy. The 5 D is a dust magnet. The 40 d by all reports has better autofocus in bad light then the d300 also better image quality in bad light as nikon smooths there image down at the expense of image detail. I would if the ultimate image quality and full frame are important to you get a rebel xti till the new 5 dii comes out, sell the xti or keep it as a back up body. If action is more important to you then get a 40 d and do not look back. I suggest the xti for now because it is really cheap will not be too much of a loss to sell is very light nice for a backup body. But again if action is more important just get a canon 40d. Anyone who thinks the 5d has better quality in low light then a id mk 111 has not shot with it.  Nikon has ana advantage with the d3 to 1dmk111 in low light canon has the advantage with the 40 d to d300. Hope this helps . David

[Josh-H]

That's one of my main issues--noise. You know something will happen to reduce the noise in that level camera, then we're left holding the bag on that old "Noisey MKIII."
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173175\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Huh?

Considering the 1D is basically twice the megapixel count of the 5D and offers the same noise performance how exactly is that bad?

[dwdallam]

Are you shooting low light, action. where are you shooting in a full frame camera dust is a real enemy. The 5 D is a dust magnet. The 40 d by all reports has better autofocus in bad light then the d300 also better image quality in bad light as nikon smooths there image down at the expense of image detail. I would if the ultimate image quality and full frame are important to you get a rebel xti till the new 5 dii comes out, sell the xti or keep it as a back up body. If action is more important to you then get a 40 d and do not look back. I suggest the xti for now because it is really cheap will not be too much of a loss to sell is very light nice for a backup body. But again if action is more important just get a canon 40d. Anyone who thinks the 5d has better quality in low light then a id mk 111 has not shot with it.  Nikon has ana advantage with the d3 to 1dmk111 in low light canon has the advantage with the 40 d to d300. Hope this helps . David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173202\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Don't think I'll be buying an XTi anytime soon, or a 40D when I already have a 5D.

[dwdallam]

Huh?

Considering the 1D is basically twice the megapixel count of the 5D and offers the same noise performance how exactly is that bad?
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I didn't say it was bad. I was explaining that the noise of the DS MKIII will probably be an issue later on, and then we'll be joking about the noise compared to the new technology. And, after buying the MKIII, the noise is NO better than the current 5D, even though you get 60.4(+-) % more pixels--no where near "twice the pixel count." (12.7 vs 21)

21 x .605 = 12.7

[John Sheehy]

Nikon has ana advantage with the d3 to 1dmk111 in low light[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173202\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's not true at all, at the RAW level.  The 1DSmk3 collects about the same amount of total photons as the D3 with the same exposure, and has about the same pixel-level read noise at all ISOs, but almost twice as many of them, for lower image read noise.

The so-called low-light superiority of the D3 is a software noise reduction illusion.

The D3 is #2; not #1.

[John Sheehy]

The D3 is #2; not #1.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That is at RAW image noise; I didn't mean to imply that this is true overall for the camera.  The D3 may very well be a more user-friendly camera to many people.

[dwdallam]

That is at RAW image noise; I didn't mean to imply that this is true overall for the camera.  The D3 may very well be a more user-friendly camera to many people.
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The only thing I even think about is RAW performance. If I ever get hired for jpg necessary images, then they'll just have to take what I get using Canon's best.

[Dr. Gary]

I know this has been threaded before, but I really want the new technology the 1D and IDS got with their recent updates, including the sensor shaker cleaning option.

Yes, the MKIII is out and for sale for 8, 000 US at B&H--if you can get one.

However, I assume that the new 5D will be around 16MPs and probably 4, 000US, which would make a hard decision, given they have nearly identical technology inside, as the 5D and MKII have.

Yes, having 21MP is nice for cropping otherwise lost photos, but having 2 new 5Ds at 16MP each for the same price as one MKIII is a very real concern.

I'm tempted to wait six months and get the MKIII this summer for 7500 with rebates, but my luck, I'd buy it just before the new 5D comes out, and wish I had purchased the 5D instead.

Does anyone have any information on this yet?

Also, I did a quick search on Amazon and found a new 5D for 2100.00 US!!! That's incredible. I mean that is a really low price for that camera and technology. What this means is that most people will buy the 5D instead of the new 1D or 1DS easily, simply because of price. OK, so that isn't much of a deal for Canon I guess, since those with need and money will buy both of those cameras anyway, regardless of what the 5D does, but what about the 40D? I guess one could argue that the 40D DOES have the upgraded technology, is 10MP, and is only 1150US. Either way, the 5D seems to be in a precarious position right now--old technology, and more expensive than the 40D.

And BTW, I have a friend who recently worked in NY City at a fairly well known studio, and all they used were 5Ds exclusively--they do wedding and commercial photography, such as album covers and famous people, such as the Dave Mathew's Band and the princes of India etc. So the 5D does have a professional life. I'm surprised by how many "pros" I talk to who use the 5D "most" of the time, due to its smaller size and weight ratio.
The sad thing about it is that the 5D is now in the 2K US area, which makes selling one really not worth it, given you won't get much more than 12-1500US out of it used. They'll make good backup cameras I guess.

I would guess that it's going to get an update announcement any day now. What do you all think? And why would you buy the MKIII over a new 5D at 16.7MPSs?
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Canon's new 450D with a 12 MP sensor might be a good option if you only want to spend 1000 for a body.

Dr. Gary