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Author Topic: Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)  (Read 20685 times)

dwdallam

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Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)
« on: January 26, 2008, 07:20:39 am »

I know this has been threaded before, but I really want the new technology the 1D and IDS got with their recent updates, including the sensor shaker cleaning option.

Yes, the MKIII is out and for sale for 8, 000 US at B&H--if you can get one.

However, I assume that the new 5D will be around 16MPs and probably 4, 000US, which would make a hard decision, given they have nearly identical technology inside, as the 5D and MKII have.

Yes, having 21MP is nice for cropping otherwise lost photos, but having 2 new 5Ds at 16MP each for the same price as one MKIII is a very real concern.

I'm tempted to wait six months and get the MKIII this summer for 7500 with rebates, but my luck, I'd buy it just before the new 5D comes out, and wish I had purchased the 5D instead.

Does anyone have any information on this yet?

Also, I did a quick search on Amazon and found a new 5D for 2100.00 US!!! That's incredible. I mean that is a really low price for that camera and technology. What this means is that most people will buy the 5D instead of the new 1D or 1DS easily, simply because of price. OK, so that isn't much of a deal for Canon I guess, since those with need and money will buy both of those cameras anyway, regardless of what the 5D does, but what about the 40D? I guess one could argue that the 40D DOES have the upgraded technology, is 10MP, and is only 1150US. Either way, the 5D seems to be in a precarious position right now--old technology, and more expensive than the 40D.

And BTW, I have a friend who recently worked in NY City at a fairly well known studio, and all they used were 5Ds exclusively--they do wedding and commercial photography, such as album covers and famous people, such as the Dave Mathew's Band and the princes of India etc. So the 5D does have a professional life. I'm surprised by how many "pros" I talk to who use the 5D "most" of the time, due to its smaller size and weight ratio.


The sad thing about it is that the 5D is now in the 2K US area, which makes selling one really not worth it, given you won't get much more than 12-1500US out of it used. They'll make good backup cameras I guess.

I would guess that it's going to get an update announcement any day now. What do you all think? And why would you buy the MKIII over a new 5D at 16.7MPSs?
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JohnKoerner

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Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2008, 09:36:59 am »

I am still scratchin' my head as to what equipment I am going to get also, but on the reverse end, because I am not a professional just an enthusiast. So I am not trying to decide between the 5D and the Mark III, but rather between the 5D, the 40D, and the Nikon D300.

I really like all the features you get with the 10 mp Canon 40D for the price ... yet for just $600 more the 12 mp Nikon D300 has a better body (with better weatherproofing), it has more shutter life (150,000 shutter life to 100,000 on the Canon), and many feel it has superior ergonomics.

But yet the 40D shoots faster and has as good (or in some cases better) image quality, for $600 less. Add to that the fact Nikon lenses are generally a little more expensive (but not any better than Canon), and I would have to spend $1,000 more to get a Nikon D300 and 2 lenses as opposed to the Canon 40D and 2 lenses. So the question I keep wondering is, is it worth $1000 extra to get slightly better weatherproofing, and perhaps some more convenient button placement ... or is it better to save my $1000, not shoot in the rain, and enjoy just as good (if not better) images from the Canon, ultimately?

Which brings up to the to the potentially-new 5D. If this is going to be a 16 mp camera, with a full-frame sensor, that will put both of those other two to shame in image quality ... and yet will only be around $3,000 ... I would surely rather spend the extra $$ on something dramatically better.

But if it's around $4000, I think I will just stick with getting the 40D, because it seems to be the most camera for the least expense.
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smthopr

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Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2008, 10:25:51 am »

Quote
I am still scratchin' my head as to what equipment I am going to get also, but on the reverse end, because I am not a professional just an enthusiast. So I am not trying to decide between the 5D and the Mark III, but rather between the 5D, the 40D, and the Nikon D300.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170235\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

John,

Why not consider the "old" 5D at $2100? Just curious about our thinking because I'm seriously considering the current 5D even though it will soon be replaced...but not soon enough.

-bruce
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JohnKoerner

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Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2008, 10:56:44 am »

I am seriously considering the "old" 5D also, because I have no use for rapid-fire shutter speed, only of simplicity and image quality.

I guess what's holding me back is not knowing what price the "new" 5D is going to start out at. If it comes in at around $4000 then I may well just go for the old 5D ... but if it comes in at around $3,000 then I will just dig a little deeper into my pockets to get the new one.

(Plus, even if the new 5D price comes in too high for me, its very "newness" may make the price of the few remaining "old" 5Ds go down even more  )
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 10:57:56 am by JohnKoerner »
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DonWeston

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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2008, 02:10:59 pm »

A big issue for me is the new Canon 5D2]?] when it is released at 16mp or whatever is will it be having AF issues like the Mk3 and the original 5D. I had 3 5D before I got one that functioned reasonably well. Some of my best image were made with the last one, but having to go through the first two poor samles was no fun. With my D200 and D300, I had no initial issues, no banding etc. Some would say I was lucky with the D200, OK but that was my experience. I am very happy with the D300, don't get me wrong but I also like the image quality, when the thing was in focus, of the 5D. Luckily I have enough lenses in both systems that switching back and forth is not a problem. A D3 was considered but not chosen due to size, weight, and cost issues. All these things depreciate faster than I like. I still see some quality issues with the old 5D images that I miss with the D300, and this I assume is due to the FF sensor more then anything else. Still need to shoot more with the D300, as there is a learning curve with every new body.  BTW, I also have a 40D and while the image quality is not bad for 12Mp on a aps-c sensor it does not compare to the 5D overall, despite what many say. Again due to the FF sensor. JMO...
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JohnKoerner

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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2008, 05:31:23 pm »

Don, how would you compare the 40D and the D300, as far as quality-of-image goes?

Thanks.
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dwdallam

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Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2008, 05:38:43 am »

Quote
I am still scratchin' my head as to what equipment I am going to get also, but on the reverse end, because I am not a professional just an enthusiast. So I am not trying to decide between the 5D and the Mark III, but rather between the 5D, the 40D, and the Nikon D300.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170235\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Full frame is nice because of the viewfinder, but the 40D has come close to that now also. If I were in your shoes, I'd get the 40D. Here's why:

1. Superior image quality all around.
2. Has all the updated technology.
3. Crop factor makes your 200mm lens a 320mm lens. You can get a 1.6 crop factor wide angle at I think 14mm (you can look that up on the canon site) also, which makes up the difference between buying longer and much more expensive telephotos.
4. Your 200mm will now be effectively 320mm, and that is a great way to photograph people, if you're interested in that.
5. The 40D is incredibly cheap, at about 1150US.
6. It has 10MPS! You can print nice 20x30 images with that.
7. You can buy nearly 3 40Ds for the cost of one updated 5D, or two for the price of one Nikon300D.
8. Do you really want and need to shoot in the rain? What are you, a combat journalist? LOL. Really though, photographing in really bad weather is not fun and not enjoyable. Some good shots can be made, like a few I saw from national Geographic of a sand storm in Death Valley, but doing that sort of photography doesn't happen too often, especially for non pros.

 I wouldn't worry too much about weather sealing. I live in the pacific northwest and where I live we get 45-60 inches of rain average per year, and I have had no problems going on days that are not puring rain. I'm not saying it isn't worth having, just that I would not let it dictate your buying, not yet anyway.

In any event, if you are not a pro, you can get cheap insurance for your gear, like 200 a year, that pays full NEW price for it in the case you damage it. I use to have that, and my policy stated that if I dropped my camera and lens into the ocean, I'd get a full reimbursement of the receipt price. It doesn't work that way for pros.

I just got back for a day trip where I was snow showing and breaking trail. I had a minimal amount of gear with me, but it was snowing pretty good and about 30 degrees. I did set up my kit but it was a bitch trying to keep the lens clear and shoot something in that cold and wet enviro that was worth it. My camera is fine though and it's a 5D. On the other hand, I'm going back out tomorrow. snow shoes etc.

Hope this helps a little.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 05:41:13 am by dwdallam »
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dwdallam

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Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2008, 05:42:31 am »

Quote
John,

Why not consider the "old" 5D at $2100? Just curious about our thinking because I'm seriously considering the current 5D even though it will soon be replaced...but not soon enough.

-bruce
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170249\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's a really good idea too. In fact, when the new 5D comes out, if it does, you could probably get a nice, used 5D for under 1500, even at B&H.
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dwdallam

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Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2008, 05:45:58 am »

Quote
BTW, I also have a 40D and while the image quality is not bad for 12Mp on a aps-c sensor it does not compare to the 5D overall, despite what many say. Again due to the FF sensor. JMO...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170318\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The 40D is 10.1MPs, not 12.
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jjj

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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2008, 10:49:55 am »

Quote
Full frame is nice because of the viewfinder...
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FF's also nicer optically, as you have the option of a shallower depth of field.
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Bernd B.

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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2008, 02:02:16 pm »

hear the voice of a "hardliner":

crop cameras are toys. technical features are just gimmicks, that don´t have anything to do with photography.

the 5D is a real camera. get yourself one.

and one more thing: size matters. at least in photography. aps-c is just 43 per cent of full-frame!
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 02:08:50 pm by Bernd B. »
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Lightbox

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Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2008, 11:31:57 pm »

There would have to be some serious torture devices in place to get me to ever use a cropped sensor camera, no comparison in my mind. I recently used a 40D for a job instead of my own 5D, and it took me a long time to get used to how far away from subjects you would have to stand, it shocked me completely. Bring on an updated version of the 5D, technology has moved on significantly now that it is worth throwing down another $4000 on a new camera.


.
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DarkPenguin

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Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2008, 11:36:40 pm »

Quote
There would have to be some serious torture devices in place to get me to ever use a cropped sensor camera, no comparison in my mind. I recently used a 40D for a job instead of my own 5D, and it took me a long time to get used to how far away from subjects you would have to stand, it shocked me completely. Bring on an updated version of the 5D, technology has moved on significantly now that it is worth throwing down another $4000 on a new camera.
.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170830\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Some of us might consider using a different lens for a different sensor format.  Whacky, I know.
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dwdallam

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Updated 5D (6D or 5D MKII?)
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2008, 11:39:58 pm »

Quote
hear the voice of a "hardliner":

crop cameras are toys. technical features are just gimmicks, that don´t have anything to do with photography.

the 5D is a real camera. get yourself one.

and one more thing: size matters. at least in photography. aps-c is just 43 per cent of full-frame!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170678\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Some of those "toys" have produced award winning photographs.
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Lightbox

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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2008, 11:47:45 pm »

Quote
Some of us might consider using a different lens for a different sensor format.  Whacky, I know.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170831\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It also puts you a lot further away from your subject, which makes it hard to analyze detail whilst not looking through the viewfinder, which incidently is hard enough to look through on a cropped sensor anyway.



.
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DarkPenguin

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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2008, 11:48:57 pm »

Okay.
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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2008, 01:11:42 am »

Quote
It also puts you a lot further away from your subject, which makes it hard to analyze detail whilst not looking through the viewfinder, which incidently is hard enough to look through on a cropped sensor anyway.
.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170834\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not sure to follow you. Why don't you just use a lens 1.5 times shorter and stand at the same location.

50 f1.2 instead of 85 f1.2 for instance.

Cheers,
Bernard

DonWeston

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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2008, 08:25:30 am »

Quote
Not sure to follow you. Why don't you just use a lens 1.5 times shorter and stand at the same location.

50 f1.2 instead of 85 f1.2 for instance.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170851\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Agreed, lenses are tools, if you need a larger hammer, get one. If you need a finish nailer get that. Having shot formats from 35 through 8x10, I acquired the lenses I needed to cover the field of view I liked working with. Really simple...The nice thing about zooms is you can keep almost the same position and keep the relative image size in the viewfinder. Both formats have advantages, don't use the format for what it isn't, period and then complain about. In the old days, the quote was in relating to being a professional means not complaining about not having the perfect brush. A professional makes do. I heard a story just last week in my office, about a famous violinist or cellist[sp], had a string pop and fail mid concert, he didn't huff and walk off the stage, he took a few seconds and continued playing the complex piece he was playing like nothing happened, no one could tell he didn't have a "perfect" instrument...there is a lesson there...
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Jonathan Wienke

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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2008, 08:45:23 am »

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It also puts you a lot further away from your subject

Only if you're too stupid to use a shorter lens...
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DonWeston

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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2008, 10:19:59 am »

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Only if you're too stupid to use a shorter lens...
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"people skills"
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