New Phase One Cam At Photo Imaging Expo

[John_Black]

Henry - if you selected ProPhoto as the output space from LR, wouldn't LR and CS3 match since both are using the same color space (assuming ProPhoto was your working space in CS3)?  Worked for me on a Mac when I tried the LR demo several months back.  It was hard to know if I was click on exactly the same pixel when comparing, but the values seemed close enough that I was reasonably confident the apps were in sync.  

In case you're wondering - I was having some profiling issues at the time, so I was busying taking screen shots, crops of this and that and trying 4 different raw editors to make sure everything was using the same color profile.

[EricWHiss]

After reading this thread and seeing all the thumbs up for LR, I went back to really see if c1 was better and ran several P20 files through both.  I have made some conclusions which I'll share.  Definitely more detail is recovered with C1, color is better and its faster to boot. I thought about cutting out 100% crops to share with you all but didn't have time.  You'll just have to go out and try it yourself if you don't want to believe me. Also in some images with very fine detail LR got a lot of CA or colored fringing around very fine branches in bushes and trees where C1 was perfect. I could not get them to go away with LR CA tools but never even had to think about them with C1.   In another image there where two tree trunks, one behind the other in a small section of the image.  In the Lightroom rendering they looked like the same tree, but in the C1 I could clearly make out that it was two separate trees - and that was one area that really convinced me that I needed to run my best files through C1.   I like the look of the files better in C1-DB but the detail and noise is better in C1 V4-Beta 2.   The new beta has shadows and highlight recover tools just like LR.    I think where LR excels is  in the color adjustment tools and grey scale conversion tools.  These are better certainly.     I have to use Lightroom to catalog my images because its the only tool that works with all my cameras but I now sort my images with C1 and delete the junk first because the previews are so much faster for stuff like checking focus, etc.   For some reason LR is really slow with the p20 files, but not bad with the leica DMR or canon files.  

I'm looking forward to a new release of C1-DB more than what their new camera will be.

[stewarthemley]

The trouble with C1, for me, was that it makes too many decisions as soon as the file opens. Sharpening is perhaps the most annoying. Even with sharpening apparently off, it still sharpens. Maybe the new version will be better but from what people are saying about how it looks, I doubt it. I agree colour is more pleasing, My preference is to be able to set a range of presets, including sharpening if I need it at that stage, and apply that. I hate machines/software making decisions for me.

[amsp]

I should point out that I shoot mostly high-end fashion editorials and product still-life, not trees and tree trunks. The controls you have in LR/ACR are priceless, especially for skin tones. I also hate the sharpening in C1 which still produces ugly artifacts even when you turn it down to 0. As far as detail goes LR produces more detail than I could ever ask for, so no complaints there, nor have I found any anomalies as CA, color shifts, etc. Just pure, crisp quality.

I get the feeling that people who like C1 are the ones who faithfully wants to reproduce reality without much editing, like landscape photographers. And people who like LR/ACR generally are the ones who want to create their own vision and appreciate the creative control.

[TMARK]

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I get the feeling that people who like C1 are the ones who faithfully wants to reproduce reality without much editing, like landscape photographers. And people who like LR/ACR generally are the ones who want to create their own vision and appreciate the creative control.
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I think it is about where you edit.  I process using C1 and edit in  CS3. I shoot beauty and editorial.   I use C1 on Phase files for a thick, color accurate file, disable sharpening, process to tiff and either hand it off to a retoucher or use CS3 to get the look I'm going for.  I use layers, a lot.  I don't think LR has layers.  My whole issue with LR is that I never really saw the point.  It has a nice GUI and is a nice concept, but the one size fits all converter is (in my opinion) lacking for really demanding work, and the editing toolset is not as complete as CS3.

[godtfred]

I get the feeling that people who like C1 are the ones who faithfully wants to reproduce reality without much editing, like landscape photographers. And people who like LR/ACR generally are the ones who want to create their own vision and appreciate the creative control.
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+1

(Still think C1 produces the best file, wish it would not do so many baseline adjustments for me though...)

[amsp]

I think it is about where you edit.  I process using C1 and edit in  CS3. I shoot beauty and editorial.   I use C1 on Phase files for a thick, color accurate file, disable sharpening, process to tiff and either hand it off to a retoucher or use CS3 to get the look I'm going for.  I use layers, a lot.  I don't think LR has layers.  My whole issue with LR is that I never really saw the point.  It has a nice GUI and is a nice concept, but the one size fits all converter is (in my opinion) lacking for really demanding work, and the editing toolset is not as complete as CS3.
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I think you misunderstood, I still do most of the work and fine tuning in CS3, but there are adjustments that are easier, faster and better done during the RAW processing phase. Being able to apply layers in ACR would be cool though.

[EricWHiss]

Actually I'm not a landscape photographer at all, and my example I discussed above was just a test with images I had handy.    

By all means if you like one program better than another, then thats what you should use.  

I shoot people mostly and find I can't get good skin color with lightroom or ACR with any of my cameras, and believe me, I would like to be able to since that would shave one or two steps from my workflow.   I know that many people have posted to forums about C1 sharpening but honestly I think that's been cleared up - 3 years ago I tried c1 shelved it and didn't try it again until last fall when I bought my phase back. Sharpening problem seems gone - maybe all that still report issues with it are just reading old internet posts instead of testing themselves?

Flexcolor is the software that gave me the best skin color out of any of them I have tried so far. Raw Developer wasn't bad either.  

Lightroom sure wins on workflow ....

[TMARK]

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[eronald]

I'm now using a workflow where I generate a throw-away profile for each sets of images, using my own custom software. This solves the issues with a lot of mixed-light situations.  I'm considering marketing it for C1 users - would this generate interest ?

Edmund