Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Different rendition in LR/PS  (Read 3412 times)

picnic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
Different rendition in LR/PS
« on: January 24, 2008, 10:33:03 am »

with PSCS3 using Prophoto RGB as working space.  I did some prints in PSCS3 (PKS sharpening, no softproofing), LR/med. sharpening, Qimage (default sharpening which was a bit too agressive, but this was for demo).  I processed in LR, did round trip to PS, printed from the tiff in LR with correct profile/media using both relcol and perceptual.  I did the same in PSCS3.  The prints are quite close, but---the LR prints' range of reds are somwhat different (the photo has several old brick historical buildings, foliage of various types--detailed and broader leafed, blue skies, etc.--chose this as it covered pretty much everything).  LR"s show a wider range of red's from a more magenta-ish to orangeish--probably closer to correct, but not exactly as the image on screen shows (which shows a more uniform orangish red).  The PS print seemed to be spot on for color--LR was very close to it except for the reds.  The greens and blues were about the same.  (Just thinking off the top of my head--could it be because my printer is able to print a wider gamut than my monitor can show--and that LR can work with this better than PS??--if this is totally off the mark--don't laugh LOL).

So--my question is--knowing that LR uses a 'sort of ' Prophoto RGB and I used the Epson PSPP profile (calibrated monitor, etc.) and my working space in PSCS3 is Prophoto RGB, same printing method--why would they not be the same, printing the same image?  My understanding was that using the printer profile and letting LR or PS manage, that the profile took care of this-esp. considering that the working spaces are the same (though I understand that LR's is 'not quite' the same but a variant on Prophoto).  

I did not softproof--just comparing print to print--to monitor and know that softproofing--(I did view, but didn't correct) is slightly different from the monitor, but not enough with this paper to do much.  I am happy with all the prints to be truthful, but the PS is 'more correct' in red/orange in particular and I'd like to understand why---all other things being equal in color management.

I should add these are with 3800 on Epson Premium Semigloss 9 x 6.75 on 8.5 x 11.

I'm adding Pbase jpeg rendition for reference
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/image/89913376.jpg

Diane
Logged

picnic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
Different rendition in LR/PS
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 11:41:11 pm »

Quote
with PSCS3 using Prophoto RGB as working space.  I did some prints in PSCS3 (PKS sharpening, no softproofing), LR/med. sharpening, Qimage (default sharpening which was a bit too agressive, but this was for demo).  I processed in LR, did round trip to PS, printed from the tiff in LR with correct profile/media using both relcol and perceptual.  I did the same in PSCS3.  The prints are quite close, but---the LR prints' range of reds are somwhat different (the photo has several old brick historical buildings, foliage of various types--detailed and broader leafed, blue skies, etc.--chose this as it covered pretty much everything).  LR"s show a wider range of red's from a more magenta-ish to orangeish--probably closer to correct, but not exactly as the image on screen shows (which shows a more uniform orangish red).  The PS print seemed to be spot on for color--LR was very close to it except for the reds.  The greens and blues were about the same.  (Just thinking off the top of my head--could it be because my printer is able to print a wider gamut than my monitor can show--and that LR can work with this better than PS??--if this is totally off the mark--don't laugh LOL).

So--my question is--knowing that LR uses a 'sort of ' Prophoto RGB and I used the Epson PSPP profile (calibrated monitor, etc.) and my working space in PSCS3 is Prophoto RGB, same printing method--why would they not be the same, printing the same image?  My understanding was that using the printer profile and letting LR or PS manage, that the profile took care of this-esp. considering that the working spaces are the same (though I understand that LR's is 'not quite' the same but a variant on Prophoto). 

I did not softproof--just comparing print to print--to monitor and know that softproofing--(I did view, but didn't correct) is slightly different from the monitor, but not enough with this paper to do much.  I am happy with all the prints to be truthful, but the PS is 'more correct' in red/orange in particular and I'd like to understand why---all other things being equal in color management.

I should add these are with 3800 on Epson Premium Semigloss 9 x 6.75 on 8.5 x 11.

I'm adding Pbase jpeg rendition for reference
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/image/89913376.jpg

Diane
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169244\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

To answer my own question, I found a good reply by Andrew Rodney about Prophoto RGB/monitors/printers/gamut, but still have a question about why PSCS3 (latest versions of both on PC/XP Pro)  handles the printing with the correct profile (working space Prophoto RGB) somewhat differently than LR (same color management).  Is it because LR's Prophoto RGB is a 'variant' of PP (i.e., Melissa)?

Diane
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 01:13:51 pm by picnic »
Logged

Nat Coalson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 195
    • http://www.NatCoalson.com/
Different rendition in LR/PS
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2008, 12:44:31 pm »

It seems to me that a TIF with ProPhoto embedded (and all develop settings zero'd) would not be using Melissa for print conversion.

I find the difference in print output mysterious, too, and hope someone con provide an explanation.

Maybe worth posting on Adobe forums too.
Logged
Nathaniel Coalson
Author of [url=http://

picnic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
Different rendition in LR/PS
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2008, 01:15:58 pm »

Quote
It seems to me that a TIF with ProPhoto embedded (and all develop settings zero'd) would not be using Melissa for print conversion.

I find the difference in print output mysterious, too, and hope someone con provide an explanation.

Maybe worth posting on Adobe forums too.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169523\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nat, do you mean that I didn't do any further processing in LR (by zeroed)?  I roundtripped this file to PSCS3.  I printed the same 'edit' file from PSCS3 and I printed the 'edit' tiff in LR--same profile, etc.--IOW--the same file from both.

Diane
Logged

Photo Op

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 194
Different rendition in LR/PS
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2008, 04:26:19 pm »

Diane/Nat- the Adobe Lightroom Forum is loaded with threads discussing the issues regarding printing with the Epson 1800, 2400, 3800 and LR. Unfortunately, there are as many if not more explanations being offered as questions asked. See-

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c05b7c1/65
or
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c05ba1a/23

--Dave
Logged
David

Nat Coalson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 195
    • http://www.NatCoalson.com/
Different rendition in LR/PS
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2008, 10:29:23 am »

Thanks Dave, your reply pointed out to me that I didn't even consider it might be an issue between LR and printer driver (which it certainly sounds like).

I print with the 9800 and haven't seen any variation between LR and PS output whatsoever.
Logged
Nathaniel Coalson
Author of [url=http://

picnic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
Different rendition in LR/PS
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2008, 11:52:01 am »

Quote
Diane/Nat- the Adobe Lightroom Forum is loaded with threads discussing the issues regarding printing with the Epson 1800, 2400, 3800 and LR. Unfortunately, there are as many if not more explanations being offered as questions asked. See-

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c05b7c1/65
or
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c05ba1a/23

--Dave
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169566\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Dave.  I knew about the issue with the Macs--I'm on a Win PC XP Pro-3800.  However, my prints are NOT bad from LR--just somewhat different.  In truth, the LR prints (other than me being able to sharpen with PKS in LR--and I could do that, go back into LR and print) are better--more differentiation in tonallity and shadows I feel.  I'm not unhappy with the LR prints at all--but do see the red bricks in this image with more shadow and more differentiation in the tones in LR than in PS where they are 'flatter'--more even in color.  BTW, red oranges in the Qimage print are different from the PS also--same profile, etc.

In another print (PSCS3/no resample, just resize and LR just resized) of the same subject but different view, the red/oranges are much closer--about the same as well as other colors (but can't remember if they were both the same--perceptual or relcol or different--forgot to write that on back) I got severe moire in the bricks in the PS print but not in the LR print.  I could resample differently to see if the moire could be corrected but its interesting to me that LR had no sign of the moire and PS did--that of course is a different issue than the color.

In truth, I think I will print from LR from now on, adding the step of output sharpening in PS with PKS for now and bring back into LR again (I often already have an 'edit' layered tiff copy from additional work in PS).

Thanks for the information.  Obviously some are having problems getting good prints from LR--I think my prints are quite good--but with more 'tonality'  in LR than PS occasionally  but not always.

Diane
Logged

pss

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 960
    • http://www.schefz.com
Different rendition in LR/PS
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2008, 05:28:03 pm »

had the same issue with LR/CS3 printing to my 4800 in 10.5....now tried the epson beta driver and all is good...there are still some very slight differences..i am assuming that the files have to be different if i print from a raw file in LR and from a PS file in CS3? both are proRGB but still....might run a test printing a PSD file out of LR and CS3.....
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up