Alpa / Horseman, etc vs Mamiya 7

[marcwilson]

Hi,

Whilst not a digital back question it is very much related to medium format equipment.

For cityscape, distant focus subjects only:
I have often used the Mamiya 7 camera and have been happy with the 24x20 inch prints (drum scanned lightjet print) I can get from it, sometimes even able to print 40x30 when tripod mounted etc. (not the same quality as from my 54 but...)

For those that have used them, how have you found prints at these sizes comparing when shot with cameras such as alpas, horsemans, etc with large format lenses and 67 film backs?

The advantages of these body/lens/back combos are obvious (shift, composition etc) but I'm wondering about the image quality in larger print.

Thanks,

Marc

[Let Biogons be Biogons]

Marc-
I guess it really depends on the lenses that you choose.  The Mamiya 7 lenses are outstanding, but so are a lot of current LF lenses.

I am exploring the same ground as you.  I recently bought into the Silvestri system to add shift. rise and tilt to a Mamiya 7 sized product as well as to expand to 6x9 along with a 4x5 option.  I just when I find time to do some experimenting I can let you know how they compare.  How the 43mm Mamiya lens, for example, matches up with the Schneider 47mm Super Angulon XL.

I suspect that when all is said and done, they will be pretty comparable.

[NicholasR]

I agree with LBbB.  I used to shoot with a Mamiya 7, and currently shoot with a fotoman 612 using a Super Angulon XL 58mm.   Both allow me to print sharply up to the point where grain becomes obtrusive.  I don't see a whole lot of difference in the chromes.

Your choice of LF lenses will make the most difference.  Mamiya 7 optics are fantastic.  Some LF optics are fantastic.  Just choose wisely.

[marcwilson]

I may be wrong here, but can we assume the Mamiya lenses to be sharper than film bases lf lenses as the overall resolution would be higher as they are made for a smaller format?

Looking at lenses like the schneider 47xl (sharper than the non xl I think) and the 80mm xl and say the rodenstock sironar s 135mm as sharp amongst film based large format lenses.

I also assume I am correct in thinking none of the digital large format lenses would cover 67 not too mention any shifts applied?

EDIT: Just checked that and some of the rodenstock apo sironar digital lenses (not the HR range) have image circles of 125mm for the wider lenses and 150mm for the longer lenses.
Would these digital lenses be sharper on film then their film lens counterparts?
An image circle of 125mm gives some 23mm of rise on the 67 film size...So perhaps this question of the sharpness of these digital lenses over their film counterparts on film is the important one here...


Basically I am looking at this type of camera for the times when the large format 54 option is not right. (travel, faster work, shoots where you need both handheld and tripod)

I think the different camera possibilities, horseman, alpa, silvestri all have their pluses and minuses also, before we even start to look at the cost issue!

Marc

[NicholasR]

I may be wrong here, but can we assume the Mamiya lenses to be sharper than film bases lf lenses as the overall resolution would be higher as they are made for a smaller format?

I don't think this is a valid assumption to make.  I would say in general terms, yes, your average 35mm lens is more sharp than your average 6x6 lens which is more sharp than your average 4x5 etc..   However, when you take into account a top quality optic I don't think its necessarily true.  

I am of the opinion that for the fstops used in rollfilm work, particularly when you don't have tilt available, most of the excellent quality lenses are diffraction limited.  I only shoot superwide with these lenses though, longer focal lengths may differ.

Regarding the digital (non HR small coverage) lenses, coverage is all over the place.  Some lenses will cover 4x5, some barely hit 6x9.   Check out largeformatphotography.info forums for a lot of discussion on these lenses.

As you are obviously looking for high quality, large prints from a rollfilm system, have you considered panoramic (6x12/6x17)?  Assuming you don't mind the panoramic aspect, your 30x40 from the mamiya would be a 30x60 at the same enlargement ratio.

I really enjoy the 6x12 format, I can crop it down to a more standard 1:1.25 ratio and still have a nice sized negative, or go the other direction and emulate a 6x17 (~1:3) ratio and still be able to print quite large.

[marcwilson]

Hi Nicholas,
612 etc really does not appeal to me.
For my personal work I have always much preferred the proportions of either square or those given by 67 or 5x4 formats.

I often toy with the idea of using the panoramic format for some of my projects, especially those based purely in the Uk where the space is at a premium, but on reflection always go with the more traditional formats.

Like yourself most of my work is with lenses at the wider end so the digital lenses shot at F11 etc should provide ample depth of field on the 67 format for my purposes.

I've checked out the various image circles of these lenses and the digital rodenstocks in general are more generous than the digital schneider ones with the 45/55/90mm ones having 125mm image circle (the 70mm having only 100mm) and the 135/150/180mm having 150mm...all  enough for basic movements on the 67 format.

Marc

[NicholasR]

Hi Mark,

If you are able to shoot at f/11 I would say that yes, try to go for the digital lenses.  My guess (and it's only a guess) is that if anything, they are better than the mamiya lenses.  All splitting hairs at this point though.

I seem to have my 612 glued at f/22 though, so what do I know  

Good luck, I can't imagine any of those digital lenses will let you down.  They also should, in theory, serve you well if/when you go to digital capture.

[marcwilson]

If I do go this route, and it's certainly still in the if stage,  I'd have to find the right camera to put it on first!

LBbB, is it the bicam you have?

Marc

[clawery]

Marc,

The Alpa, Horseman and all the other cameras that you have mentioned are all excellent cameras.
I'm not sure if you have considered it, but the Cambo Wide DS should be put on your list of considerations.  There is the standard Wide DS that allows you to use Polaroid backs as well as roll film holders, and the Wide DS Digital Series that allows you to attach a MFDB. Here is the link to Cambo's web site that shows each particular system and their accessories.

http://www.cambo.com/

If you take a look at our web site, you can link over to a few photographers that are using P45+/ Cambo Wide DS combination.

http://captureintegration.com/tools/our-favorite-websites/

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration

(404)234-5195   Cell
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