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MichaelEzra

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« Reply #1660 on: August 27, 2008, 04:14:22 pm »

Quote
Great shot Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217525\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

thanks:)
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woof75

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« Reply #1661 on: August 27, 2008, 05:26:23 pm »

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Thank you..:+}
The one blamed for always copying other photographers.. we know who he/she is..
He has copied a lot of my ideas from my website.. A compliment to me but a pain when it is then seen all over and then he/she takes credit for the idea...

Snook
Some more from the series

[attachment=8099:attachment][attachment=8100:attachment][attachment=8101:attachm
ent]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217622\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Er pot calling kettle, that pink on one side bluish on the other side light has been done a million times before, not to get to into detail here but you haven't done a thing that a million other people haven't already done.
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Frank Doorhof

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« Reply #1662 on: August 27, 2008, 06:03:11 pm »

First shot with the roller blades....
With all due respect Snook, you called it on yourself, but that SCREAMS David Lachapelle, same pose, same effects even the same star earring he uses a lot.

I remember you once mailed me very angry that I copied your work while at that moment in time I did not even know you, I did not even knew which photos you talked about.
In the end it appeared that I shot a series on a junkyard, actually that is next to our studio (2 minute walk), and you shot in a similair setting a session.

When you call that copycatting (and I don't know if you mean me) than EVERY PHOTOGRAPHER that shoots models is copying another photographer.

Copycatting for me is copying an UNIQUE idea (and to be honest I don't see those arround that much) and making an EXACT copy. In other words lying the two pictures on top of each other and seeing an identical pose/setting etc.
Not crying that someone shot a gray background with a fashion model while you also shot that same background with a model, there are a million photographers out there shooting graybackgrounds with models.....

As pointed out before me, what you showcase here is wonderful but it's NOWHERE unique the multicolor setup has been done since the 70's.

Making unique work is incredible difficult nowadays, and with the internet we all look arround and pick up ideas and setups that we incorperate in our style, that's life, if you think you are unique and don't want anyone to pick up ideas then don't share.

When I try out something new and post it online I see it being copied almost identical in the next days and weeks, I really don't give a you know what  as you say it's the biggest form of flattery for me it just raises the bar to find something even more challenging to produce and even harder to copy.
That's the game nowadays, stay on top of it and you'll always have work, cry about it and people will slowly ignore you and move on.

The writen word always come out harscher than it's meant so read three or four times before responding agressive, because this doesn't deserve an agressive response it's just reality.

I would like to add that if you did not posted the comment about the copycat I would have responded that I loved the first shot and that it had a very David Lachapelle like vibe which I my book is a good thing by the way.
Adding the copycat comment is in my opinion just putting your own work down instead of getting the wow effect it would have had without that comment.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 06:35:07 pm by Frank Doorhof »
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woof75

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« Reply #1663 on: August 27, 2008, 06:10:55 pm »

Quote
Some more fashion stuff
Did these with the P45 while my P30 was being repaired..:+}
ADFII 55-110
:+}
Snook
just hope the copy cat in here does not try and copy them...:+}

[attachment=8096:attachment][attachment=8097:attachment][attachment=8098:attachm
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 06:14:10 pm by woof75 »
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Frank Doorhof

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« Reply #1664 on: August 27, 2008, 06:11:36 pm »

By the way, just to add.
I don't know if it's the same Snook but on Retouchpro there is thread about the multicollored shadows I know you hang arround there also, maybe that was the inspiration ???
and that's not a bad thing, again we all pick up ideas....... I know I do


The effect is a simple color trick.
If you use the connected secondary color and the primary opposed to that color connected through your blackbody curve or in simple words.
Use Yellow and blue OR magenta and green, OR red and cyaan
And mix these two together with normal white light you will have an almost normal exposure on your model but a bicolor shadow and a tinted left/right side.

To make the story complete this dates back to the time when Technicolor was used.
They shifted the color channels and added colorchannels to get a certain technicolor look.
Instead of for example using RGB you can also use RRGB or RGGB etc.
This is a very simplified explanation of technicolor (if you want I can explain in depth).

However by understanding how color works and knowing that each primary and secondary are connected through the white point so if you balance those two you will get a perfect mix of white light when combined with white light on the model.

This works best with a large soft lightsource or ringflash on the model and two spots with gels aimed slightly from the sides.
Again it's a very very old trick but it still kicks if used correctly and you did that here, so great series.....

But don't blame someone else if they also do it.
I sometimes show this during workshops on a white wall, it's amazing to see the effect especially with jumps.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 06:14:47 pm by Frank Doorhof »
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Snook

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« Reply #1665 on: August 27, 2008, 06:58:21 pm »

Looks like I got the flames going and did not mean too..
In any case I never said I invented anything.. Just sometimes do not like to show work as I have seen it copycat-ed? sp...:+}
Just so you all know I did not come up with this concept at all just added my view to it..:+}
Specially b/c I decided when to snap the picture which make me the photographer.
Where I live they all copycat everything and literally want us photographers to try an copy the light of the "Big" photographers all the time. really frustrating artistically but pays the bills and keeps us on our toes b/c "usually" the big photographers are chosen for their particular look they have whether it be lighting or angle or emotion they get from the model.
I have become the man of all types of lighting as I am challenged to copy the big magazine spreads but with usually Ugly models, bad hair and make-up and specially "Bad" clothing or should I say nothing even close to a Gucci type product..:+}

Yes Frank I did hound you a long time back as you often ask me stuff over at Dpreview and you even commented to one time about my "JunkYard" series I did, which I never saw anywhere else by the way , and then suddenly a couple weeks later you had done the same images and were posting them everywhere. You even put the same mixed Lucis art effect I put on mine. Actually just saw them commented on another forum the other day. I am sure if we compare exifs on the shots , your were done way after mine..:+} So yes I may have been bitter and when I saw some other guys the other day in here hounding you for copying other photographers "style", it reminded me of the past.
In any case I chose not to name you but I guess you figured it was you? Maybe your consciences?
In either case it was just a little stab not meant to be painful..:+}
Snook
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Frank Doorhof

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« Reply #1666 on: August 27, 2008, 07:41:51 pm »

The funny thing is that the post you are talking about is a LONG time ago and was not the first series I did on that location, as mentioned before the location is only 2 minutes away from my studio.

Look I can take some critique and I can take hints or small stabs.
But I just don't think you can call someone a copycat because they do the same setting as someone else did. It's simply not done, I don't know where I'm being accussed of copying other photographers I would love to see that (or I missed it probarbly).
The truth is and never ever do mysterious about it I have my inspirations, I love David Lachapelle, and I love Douglass Bizarro.
From both I borrow and steal, like everyone does if you claim you don't steal from anyone you are not connected with reality. I also will never ever say that it's not true when it is........
Why should I, there's nothing wrong with it, as long as you don't xerox and idea and sell it as your own that's just stupid and bad.
HOWEVER what I do try and I think that I succeeded in that is getting my own look and style, and of course that will use elements from the people I love.
Just compare it to music, I love Queen and I hear alot of influences of them in the other music I love, is Mika for example a copycat of Queen ??
Well some say and some say not, for me it doesn't matter he has his own sound, his own look and I LOVE to hear Queen in it, someone who never heard of Queen would probarbly never guessed it.
In your carreer you work towards your own style but that style will ALWAYS include elements from other photographers, it's simply impossible not to.... point me to one photographer NOWADAYS who is really unique and doesn't look like anyone else.....
Calling someone a copy cat is often in my opinion just a way to put someone down without a reason, UNLESS again they xerox and idea and that is in my opinion always a bad thing, always bring your own style to it (or in other words, BE INSPIRED AND INSPIRE OTHERS)


The story you refer to is changed to your advantage here.
I did post on DPreview in the past (sometimes sill do), BUT I also post on other forums, always have been posting and more active than on DPReview.
When I got a mail without any explanation and only very agressive language blaming me for copying, to be honest I was blown away, I did not understand were it was coming from, I did not know about which pictures it was and asking nicely did not get a good response so I did the research myself and found out that under your name there were shots on a junkyard but TOTALLY different than from what I had done.

My shots....
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 07:49:16 pm by Frank Doorhof »
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Snook

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« Reply #1667 on: August 27, 2008, 08:47:03 pm »

Like you said it was a long time ago....

Just thought about it when people mentioned it earlier in this post with the caged girl shot's you did.
One thing I think your wrong about and that is I NEVER try and copy anybody. And most of my work on my sites was for Jobs as My private or personal work is not thrown around the internet.

So even if Admire some ones light or shot they got, I would never try and copy anyone.

Most of my work starts with what's called a reference but in the end it is tweaked by me and sometimes things do not work under the circumstances of which you went or to shoot.
That's what makes a good photographer in my mind.
In any case all water under the bridge..:+]
Snook
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JTFOTO

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« Reply #1668 on: August 27, 2008, 08:54:11 pm »

this Snook guy is just a child.

If you look at his DP review he was ripping everyone and anyone and got into a heated conversation with James Russell but was going under a different name.  Now he is here and starts the same shit from DP review.  He was vulgar and insulting people there and changed his name and came here.  Some guys on DP review investigated him and it turned out he is some former male model that left the Miami market bankrupt to start elsewhere.

Snook, get over yourself.  You're not doing anything new.  NOT A THING!  you're copying Nick Knight, LaChappelle and anyone else you think you like their work.  and actually doing it poorly!  Get into a big market like NY, Milan, Paris, LA or London and see how you fend for yourself.  You would be starving in any large market.

No offense to people in smaller markets, but this guy thinks he is Meisel or Klein in some 5th rate market.  He would never make it in NY, Milan, or Paris.

Before you start chewing people, look at your work.  I would love to see EXIF here and see who shot it first, but I am almost certain it wasn't snook.  Plus Meisel has done a Junkyard every few years from Vegas and Miami to NYC and Milan.  Check the historic pictures of Italian Vogue.

What a Joke!

JT
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LumiWill

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« Reply #1669 on: August 27, 2008, 10:35:19 pm »

ditto... maybe without being so straight forward.
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James Godman

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« Reply #1670 on: August 28, 2008, 12:20:47 am »

Quote
this Snook guy is just a child.

If you look at his DP review he was ripping everyone and anyone and got into a heated conversation with James Russell but was going under a different name.  Now he is here and starts the same shit from DP review.  He was vulgar and insulting people there and changed his name and came here.  Some guys on DP review investigated him and it turned out he is some former male model that left the Miami market bankrupt to start elsewhere.

Snook, get over yourself.  You're not doing anything new.  NOT A THING!  you're copying Nick Knight, LaChappelle and anyone else you think you like their work.  and actually doing it poorly!  Get into a big market like NY, Milan, Paris, LA or London and see how you fend for yourself.  You would be starving in any large market.

No offense to people in smaller markets, but this guy thinks he is Meisel or Klein in some 5th rate market.  He would never make it in NY, Milan, or Paris.

Before you start chewing people, look at your work.  I would love to see EXIF here and see who shot it first, but I am almost certain it wasn't snook.  Plus Meisel has done a Junkyard every few years from Vegas and Miami to NYC and Milan.  Check the historic pictures of Italian Vogue.

What a Joke!

JT
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Agreed
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James Godman
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AndreNapier

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« Reply #1671 on: August 28, 2008, 02:12:35 am »

When someone copy "your idea" it is a complement and a sign of admiration for your work. It is only when they do it better than you when they become copycats and thieves.
http://AndreNapier.com
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 02:13:40 am by AndreNapier »
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Rob C

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« Reply #1672 on: August 28, 2008, 04:18:24 am »

Quote from: Frank Doorhof,Aug 27 2008, 10:03 PM
First shot with the roller blades....
With all due respect Snook, you called it on yourself, but that SCREAMS David Lachapelle, same pose, same effects even the same star earring he uses a lot.






Well, Frank, as I am obviously barred from taking the holy man´s name in vain any more, I  can only thank you for doing so on my behalf.

It does scream the name, it is still as vulgar as the original, and I fail to see why anyone would wish to emulate the mannerisms; they are the very first things that attack the retinas. Like acid.

As they say, just my two-cents worth.

Rob C

Frank Doorhof

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« Reply #1673 on: August 28, 2008, 04:22:24 am »

Well we can discuss taste whatever we like but I for one LOVE that style
But than again I also respect people who don't.
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dirkpieters

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« Reply #1674 on: August 28, 2008, 05:00:26 am »

 
Dirk
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jing q

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« Reply #1675 on: August 28, 2008, 05:56:23 am »

Alright guys take a chill pill...
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woof75

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« Reply #1676 on: August 28, 2008, 06:27:04 am »

Quote
Like you said it was a long time ago....

Just thought about it when people mentioned it earlier in this post with the caged girl shot's you did.
One thing I think your wrong about and that is I NEVER try and copy anybody. And most of my work on my sites was for Jobs as My private or personal work is not thrown around the internet.

So even if Admire some ones light or shot they got, I would never try and copy anyone.

Most of my work starts with what's called a reference but in the end it is tweaked by me and sometimes things do not work under the circumstances of which you went or to shoot.
That's what makes a good photographer in my mind.
In any case all water under the bridge..:+]
Snook
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It doesn't matter if you try and copy or not, most copying is done without realizing it and most work is copied to some extent or another. When I look at your work I see lots of other peoples pictures recombined slightly and there is no hint of your vision, if you want people to not copy people you have to work on your vision, the only way to copy that is to become you, i.e. impossible.
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CaptainHook

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« Reply #1677 on: August 28, 2008, 07:02:24 am »

I like some of snook's work AND franks.
But this over a junkyard idea? Jesus, when i first
started photography it was one of the first ideas
i had as soon as i drove past one. I would have
thought EVERY photographer that has seen one
has most likely thought "would that work for
a shoot?" as that goes through my head EVERYWHERE.
We're all scanning our surroundings for ideas so
it's pretty safe to say any location concept has mostly
likely at the very least been considered by a LOT
of people.

dirkpieters ~ looks like some (but not only) low opacity lucis as
snook said.

Now back to the posting pics already!  
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Frank Doorhof

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« Reply #1678 on: August 28, 2008, 07:19:39 am »

Did not have lucis that time.
So that's handy work, later I found Lucis and was thinking, damn that saved time lol.
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MichaelEzra

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« Reply #1679 on: August 28, 2008, 07:33:06 am »

Mamiya ZD camera. 150mm AF

[FYI nude image]

P.s. my previous post contains an error - it was also 150mm AF, nice lens.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 07:34:05 am by MichaelEzra »
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