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Author Topic: Canon 1ds3 alignment problems  (Read 91641 times)

dottore

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #220 on: March 17, 2008, 04:07:26 AM »

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Are you a technical expert on Canon assembly processes, or is this an inference based on some random experience? And what makes you think they can't reliably fix this problem? There is already a track record of successful re-alignments.

I am no expert on how to manufacture cameras either, but I think it more sensible to believe that a company like Canon is fully capable of manufacturing cameras in a manner to avoid this problem reliably, and whatever errors, oversights or shortcuts are now causing this problem are fixable - if not already done. I suspect the real problems are rooted in corporate culture and commercial considerations - not technical ability per se; but in this day and age of the internet, with forums such as this one, bad news circulates real fast and the reputational risk and possible consequences of doing nothing are high. So sooner or later these issues get addressed, at some inconvenience to the early adopters.
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I'm certainly not an expert on Canon camera assembly, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express... and that's the point - a Canon person may be tempted to explain it better.  In this day and age of Internet company representatives should indeed talk to the customers also in forums like this one, and use the same tools to defend their reputation.  And believe it or not, some companies do that, even companies bigger than Canon (such as Intel for example).  

So of course you are right that it's corporate culture and not technical ability per se - I'm sure the engineers are able to eventually solve this issue -- maybe in the next model.  Btw. the robotic assembly of today's point and shoot cameras with their tiny lens elements and other parts is really something to admire and getting quickly better.   Of course, these cameras in general can not be repaired by humans after assembly, but since they are cheap, they can be replaced.  Not so with Ds MarkIII...
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Mark D Segal

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #221 on: March 17, 2008, 07:37:04 AM »

Hi Dottore - yes, well I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express too, so that makes both of us geniae.     In whatever way they are assembling the 1Ds3, the re-assuring element is that people who've had this problem are getting them back repaired or replaced satisfactorily - that is what most of the evidence so far indicates, so I guess I'm a bit more optimistic about the high-end of the product line than you seem to be. I'm sure Canon has learned a lot from recent episodes with both the 1D3 and the 1Ds3, but it seems unlike some other companies, they simply don't have the corporate culture of candour with their customers. In fact one Canon rep told me over the phone that they DO NOT come to any conclusions about performance issues or design their support policies around what is said on web forums - (but it's also clear that they do read them). Perhaps that attitude will be be cured eventually with increasing competition in this market niche.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Dinarius

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #222 on: March 17, 2008, 07:37:28 AM »

Just to say that I have only just now found time to install the grid focusing screen and check this replacement (not repair) camera.

It's totally flawless!  

And not only does it have a perfectly aligned viewfinder, it also came with zero exposures clocked on the counter (my first one didn't) and the sensor is totally spotless (again, the first camera's sensor was a little spotty).

All in all, this camera is exactly as my 5D was and is how my first 1DsM3 should have been a couple of months back.

Just goes to show that it pays to throw your toys out of the pram occasionally.

I am (finally) a very happy camper.

D.
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sojournerphoto

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #223 on: March 17, 2008, 10:51:00 AM »

Quote
Just to say that I have only just now found time to install the grid focusing screen and check this replacement (not repair) camera.

It's totally flawless!   

And not only does it have a perfectly aligned viewfinder, it also came with zero exposures clocked on the counter (my first one didn't) and the sensor is totally spotless (again, the first camera's sensor was a little spotty).

All in all, this camera is exactly as my 5D was and is how my first 1DsM3 should have been a couple of months back.

Just goes to show that it pays to throw your toys out of the pram occasionally.

I am (finally) a very happy camper.

D.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182076\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Soon you will be contributing to the 'in praise of the Ds3 thread':)

Mike
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Justinr

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #224 on: March 17, 2008, 05:09:36 PM »

Just over a year ago I bought a 30D and have experienced the following-

- Sloping horizons (the subject of this thread)
- AF tracking totally worthless
- Inconsistent exposures

This latter one I have not seen discussed at all but take a look at these two shots-  www.tipphorse.com/subpage7.html

They were taken within one minute of each other with absolutely no change in camera settings other than a slight adjustment to focal length on the Sigma EX 80-400 zoom. I was pointing the camera in more or less the same direction. Now, as photographs they would normally be deleted but I've kept them as one further reason why I no longer have any faith in Canon.

Justin.
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Jonathan Wienke

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #225 on: March 17, 2008, 06:16:30 PM »

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They were taken within one minute of each other with absolutely no change in camera settings other than a slight adjustment to focal length on the Sigma EX 80-400 zoom. I was pointing the camera in more or less the same direction. Now, as photographs they would normally be deleted but I've kept them as one further reason why I no longer have any faith in Canon.

Repost them without stripping the EXIF data, and isolating the cause of the problem will be a lot easier.

sojournerphoto

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #226 on: March 17, 2008, 08:13:29 PM »

Back to the thread - after running micro adjustment tests tonight on my lenses (only the 85 f1.8 needed an adjustment of +5 and the 25-105L was a bit funny, being spot on at 24mm for close things, but front focusing slightly at longer distance,  and at 105 spot on regardless of distance) I thought I'd have ago at the viewfinder alignment. It seems pretty straight, but part of the image in the viewfinder is cropped off the bottom of the frame and the top gains a bit. Less than the gaps on the 5D, but cause for canon to fix it none the less.

Mike
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Justinr

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #227 on: March 17, 2008, 08:43:05 PM »

Its getting late so I have not time to dig out the metadata on the two shots but I am pretty sure from memory the figures were the same except for the focal length.

But that is beside the point. A camera should not produce this sort of variance in picture quality when no alteration has been made to the settings and the lighting has hardly changed, if at all. If you are looking to rely upon a camera to produce consistent images then a problem is a problem irrespective of the cause.

Justin.
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Jonathan Wienke

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #228 on: March 17, 2008, 09:05:15 PM »

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Its getting late so I have not time to dig out the metadata on the two shots but I am pretty sure from memory the figures were the same except for the focal length.

But that is beside the point. A camera should not produce this sort of variance in picture quality when no alteration has been made to the settings and the lighting has hardly changed, if at all. If you are looking to rely upon a camera to produce consistent images then a problem is a problem irrespective of the cause.

Not true. You may have invertently activated bracketing, which would alter the exposure even if you were in manual mode. Or you may have had the camera in Av or Tv mode, in which case changing the framing could have altered the camera's meter reading. Or you may have bumped the mode dial to an adjacent mode. Or the aperture in the lens could be sticky and not always stopping down to the correct aperture. Or even if you were in full manual mode, and no camera settings changed, if it was a partly cloudy day the lighting could have changed that much between shots. There's many possibilities to consider other than a defective camera.

Post links to the original files from the camera.

jeremydillon

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #229 on: March 25, 2008, 09:17:18 PM »

Just to let people in Melbourne know that Burwood now does the vf allignment on site (they used to have to send them to Sydney). When I dropped my camera off this morning they told me that they now have "the tool" to do it.
I'll be picking the camera up on Tuesday ... I'll let you know how it goes.
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Dinarius

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #230 on: March 26, 2008, 02:00:54 PM »

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Back to the thread - after running micro adjustment tests tonight on my lenses (only the 85 f1.8 needed an adjustment of +5 and the 25-105L was a bit funny, being spot on at 24mm for close things, but front focusing slightly at longer distance,  and at 105 spot on regardless of distance) I thought I'd have ago at the viewfinder alignment. It seems pretty straight, but part of the image in the viewfinder is cropped off the bottom of the frame and the top gains a bit. Less than the gaps on the 5D, but cause for canon to fix it none the less.

Mike
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Cropping, in addition to mis-alignment, was also a problem with my first Mk3. The replacement is perfect on all counts.

D.
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sojournerphoto

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #231 on: March 26, 2008, 08:42:21 PM »

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Cropping, in addition to mis-alignment, was also a problem with my first Mk3. The replacement is perfect on all counts.

D.
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Interestingly, Canon suggested I initially contact the retailer for a replacement. I'll report how it goes.

Mike
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Dinarius

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #232 on: March 27, 2008, 02:21:26 PM »

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Interestingly, Canon suggested I initially contact the retailer for a replacement. I'll report how it goes.

Mike
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I didn't deal with Canon at all. I dealt only with my dealer who is a professional reseller (i.e. they have no high-street presence) who insisted, on my behalf, on a replacement and not a repair.

On the issue of cropping, the simplest way to test it is to frame something close and tight such as some text from a newspaper. Then switch on Live View and compare what you are seeing on the screen with what's visible in the viewfinder. You may be surprised!

D.
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Justinr

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« Reply #233 on: March 28, 2008, 10:55:19 AM »

It is interesting to note that one correspondent upon this subject has sloping horizons on  some images presented within a post on another thread.

Justin.
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Dinarius

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #234 on: March 28, 2008, 02:19:39 PM »

Update:

Today was the first day I've really had a chance to use the replacement Mk3 in earnest. I've been shooting MFDB the last two weeks.

All is not as well as I'd hoped, but I'm going to put up with it.

1. While alignment is flawless, there is some discrepancy between what I am seeing in the viewfinder and what is on Live View/Captured File, namely, in a tightly framed scene there is some clipping across the bottom of the frame. So, with critical compositions it is necessary to use the Live View to be sure you're getting everything you want in shot.

2. When shooting a uniformly lit subject against a white background I noticed that there was a faint shadow line across the bottom of the frame. This had all the hallmarks of an incorrect sync speed, so I set this shutter to 1/200 (instead of 1/250). Still the same problem, though the shadow line was fainter. At 1/160 it was fainter still, though still visible.

Only at 1/125 sec. and longer was there a clean image. So, unless I have set something incorrectly in the camera (suggestions on a postcard please!   ) my camera does not sync as claimed. Annoying, but not the end of the world. I guess they'll never get this camera quite right.

By the way, anyone wishing to try to test for this will easily see the shadowing on the camera's screen (make sure the the white wall, or whatever, is evenly lit) but, you can confirm it using ACR's colour picker.

D.
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canmiya

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #235 on: March 28, 2008, 03:37:21 PM »

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Update:

All is not as well as I'd hoped, but I'm going to put up with it.

..... When shooting a uniformly lit subject against a white background I noticed that there was a faint shadow line across the bottom of the frame. This had all the hallmarks of an incorrect sync speed, so I set this shutter to 1/200 (instead of 1/250). Still the same problem, though the shadow line was fainter. At 1/160 it was fainter still, though still visible.

Only at 1/125 sec. and longer was there a clean image. So, unless I have set something incorrectly in the camera (suggestions on a postcard please!   ) my camera does not sync as claimed. Annoying, but not the end of the world. I guess they'll never get this camera quite right.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185035\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i think you camera is syncing properly:  if you are shooting with studio strobes the recommended sync speed is 1/125 or slower...the higher sync speeds generally apply to compact ie. speedlite and speedlite compatible units...
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Dinarius

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #236 on: March 28, 2008, 04:08:06 PM »

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i think you camera is syncing properly:  if you are shooting with studio strobes the recommended sync speed is 1/125 or slower...the higher sync speeds generally apply to compact ie. speedlite and speedlite compatible units...
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I wasn't aware of that. Thank you for clearing that up.

D.
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djgarcia

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #237 on: March 28, 2008, 04:44:14 PM »

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i think you camera is syncing properly:  if you are shooting with studio strobes the recommended sync speed is 1/125 or slower...the higher sync speeds generally apply to compact ie. speedlite and speedlite compatible units...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=185050\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yep. The strong strobes take a bit more time for all that light to come out .
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carl dw

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #238 on: April 05, 2008, 07:09:26 PM »

Sixth time lucky...

It's now about three months since my first disappointing brush with the 1DsMkIII.

Following my return of FOUR bodies in January with mis-alignment issues me dealer called earlier this week to let me know he'd received four fresh new bodies, oh what jolly excitement.

Having tentatively offered my credit card I took the camera to my studio for a closer look...and surprise, surprise... discovered they still haven't figured out how to put the sensor in straight!! - OK, it's not as bad as the first four, but still not where it should be.

So, I make a cup of coffee, sit down and start to wonder if I simply have to accept this shoddy workmanship as the new norm for Canon.... or see if another camera manufacturer can do a better job.

I decided to hang onto the camera and take a print of my findings to the dealer. He agreed it wasn't good and asked if I'd like to give yet another one a last try... OK says I.

I nearly fell over when I discovered the sensor in this SIXTH body was in EXACTLY the right place. Wow, was it a fluke? Who knows, but it seems (to me anyway, from my own hands-on experience) the odds are stacked well against getting a good copy of this camera.

 
It has been a frustrating and time consuming experience from which I've now made three observations..

1. When it's put together correctly, the 1DsMkIII is truly excellent.

2. Canon needs to pull it's socks up when it comes to quality control and customer care.

3. It's important to develop a good working relationship with your local camera dealer.


...and the cherry on the cake is that the camera has dropped in price by 1200 since January - so thanks be to Canon for an unexpected week in the Greek Islands in return for all the hassle!!
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Dinarius

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« Reply #239 on: April 06, 2008, 03:32:06 AM »

Interesting that you had problems with the sensor. I never did, or at least I don't think I did. With the three Mk3s I used, what I was seeing on Live View was exactly what I was getting. Of course, live view can only see what the sensor is seeing    but my point is that it was perfectly aligned with the grid.

On the other hand, two of the bodies had alignment problems, while all three (including the one I now own) had/have problems with clipping across the bottom of the viewfinder.

I guess you could argue that the viewfinder frame is correctly installed and that the sensor is not installed to match it!   But, my money is on the viewfinder frame not being the 100% viewable area that it should be.

Bangs for my buck, the 5D is still the best camera I have ever owned and that includes all my film cameras, with the possible exception of my Sinar P.

D.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 03:33:42 AM by Dinarius »
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