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Author Topic: Canon 1ds3 alignment problems  (Read 105765 times)

Josh-H

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #180 on: February 21, 2008, 10:55:38 pm »

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Hi Josh,

Just to set you straight ... the street price for a 1ds3 in aust seems to be 'round $10,999 (that's about $10,000 before tax), I paid a bit less for mine.  Once you convert to AUD and add GST we are getting much closer parity with US prices than we ever have with a pro DSLR from Canon ever before.

Canon Australia are taking a hard line with guarantee repairs on imported product. Don't expect to drop your bhphoto.com 1ds3 with an allignment problem out to Burwood for a quick fix.

Finally, Canon in Burwood have known about the allignment problem with my 1ds3 since the 15th January.  A technician and the main check in person checked it out when I dropped in there to see what the story with a repair would be. They rekon a 72hour turnaround to get it done when I get a gap in my shooting sched. (I think they do a 48 hour if you're a CPS member)

Anyway, we all have our issues with Canon Australia (their lenses still seem to be 30% above the world going rate) But I think that they've done all they can with local pricing on the 1DSiii, and have been responsive to my v/f allignment issues.

cheers

Jeremy
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yeah I know the current st. price is around 11k. I was refering to the RRP on Canons website - here: [a href=\"http://www.canon.com.au/products/cameras/digital_slr.html]1DS MKIII[/url]

I ordered my 1DS MKIII locally back in November 07 - received it about 3 weeks ago now and paid a shade over 11k inc. tax. But that did include an 8 gig sandisk extreme IV ducati edition card - not sure the price of the card.

When I spoke to Canon burwood earlier this week they told me that any repairs to 1 series cameras have to be done in Sydney - but that the viewfinder repair was a quick fix and as a CPS member they could turn it around in approx. 3 days. They mentioned several people reporting the issue - guess you must have been one of them :-)

Your spot on the money with lens prices in Australia from Canon - their website prices are way out of whack with St. prices.

Let us know how you get on when you send yours in for the alignment fix.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 11:01:13 pm by Josh-H »
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phila

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« Reply #181 on: February 21, 2008, 11:17:23 pm »

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Yeah I know the current st. price is around 11k. I was refering to the RRP on Canons website - here: 1DS MKIII

I ordered my 1DS MKIII locally back in November 07 - received it about 3 weeks ago now and paid a shade over 11k inc. tax. But that did include an 8 gig sandisk extreme IV ducati edition card - not sure the price of the card.

When I spoke to Canon burwood earlier this week they told me that any repairs to 1 series cameras have to be done in Sydney - but that the viewfinder repair was a quick fix and as a CPS member they could turn it around in approx. 3 days. They mentioned several people reporting the issue - guess you must have been one of them :-)

Your spot on the money with lens prices in Australia from Canon - their website prices are way out of whack with St. prices.

Let us know how you get on when you send yours in for the alignment fix.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176554\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As I reported here earlier I had mine adjusted in 24 hours at Canon Sydney. I only live 15 minutes away so was able to drop it in directly one afternoon and collect it the next (although I am a CPS member).

dwdallam

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #182 on: February 22, 2008, 06:57:25 am »

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And for the record in Australia the 1DS MKIII is MSRP $11,995.00

a 22 pixel medium format back from say leaf or Phase is SIGNIFICANTLY MORE.

Not to mention thats just the back - you still need a body.

So I dont think its a fair comparison. In Australia anyway...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176368\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

OK I'm ignorant on this then. can you explain this to me? I just watched a quick video at the Phase1 website, and teh "back" snaps into the "body" the photographer was using.  This is interesting to me. And are you saying that teh little piece that snaps into the body is 10+K?
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Josh-H

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #183 on: February 22, 2008, 07:09:29 am »

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OK I'm ignorant on this then. can you explain this to me? I just watched a quick video at the Phase1 website, and teh "back" snaps into the "body" the photographer was using.  This is interesting to me. And are you saying that teh little piece that snaps into the body is 10+K?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176624\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yup.

The back alone is the big ticket item.

You still need the camera body and the lens - and that can run some serious coin as well depending on your choices.
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dwdallam

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #184 on: February 22, 2008, 05:54:46 pm »

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Yup.

The back alone is the big ticket item.

You still need the camera body and the lens - and that can run some serious coin as well depending on your choices.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176625\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Can someone give an outline how this works and the cost involved for each item, including lens choice? This is interesting to me and perhaps worth saving a year or two to invest in it. Also, some pros and cons of using medium format compared to the MKIII, such as weather sealing, portability, and weight.

Thanks.
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djgarcia

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #185 on: February 22, 2008, 06:06:49 pm »

I'd say it merits its very own thread .
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dwdallam

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« Reply #186 on: February 22, 2008, 09:35:56 pm »

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I'd say it merits its very own thread .
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176771\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Indeed.
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pfigen

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« Reply #187 on: February 22, 2008, 11:04:07 pm »

I got my MKIII back from Canon today. Three weeks and two days later. The "D" board, or digital board was defective, and had to be ordered from Japan. It seems to be working fine now but I haven't had a chance to put it through it's paces. They said that that same board was probably the source of the focusing problems I was having as well. They weren't sure if they were going get it in Fedex yesterday or today and offered Saturday delivery, which, in the end, wasn't needed.
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #188 on: February 23, 2008, 12:36:25 am »

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It's good to know the list price is 8K then for sure. Even so, you can get the 22MP medium format for I think under 11K US. I know there are big differences between the cameras, but using the settings available in teh medium format 22MP camera and the same settings on the Canon MKIII, you'll never match the MF back in quality of the recorded image. Portability and speed are another issue.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176360\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Have you done a rigorous comparison of the same image shot with a range of different settings using both cameras and examined the results, or is this a theoretical proposition?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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dwdallam

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Canon 1ds3 alignment problems
« Reply #189 on: February 23, 2008, 02:51:51 am »

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Have you done a rigorous comparison of the same image shot with a range of different settings using both cameras and examined the results, or is this a theoretical proposition?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176824\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nope, I haven't. But I will theorize that if the MKIII was comparable in quality to a MF, then MF would not sell. Not only that, but the size of a MF sensor is twice the size of of the MKIII's. Last, I've read in many different places, including this site in one of MR's essays, that MF kicks APS sensor quality's ass given equal pixel density. I could be mistaken, but if I remember or read correctly, then that is the fact.

But by all means, if you have evidence that the MKIII can stand toe to toe with a MF camera, or even come close to it's performance, please share this information.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 02:52:31 am by dwdallam »
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Dinarius

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« Reply #190 on: February 23, 2008, 04:26:00 am »

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Nope, I haven't. But I will theorize that if the MKIII was comparable in quality to a MF, then MF would not sell. Not only that, but the size of a MF sensor is twice the size of of the MKIII's. Last, I've read in many different places, including this site in one of MR's essays, that MF kicks APS sensor quality's ass given equal pixel density. I could be mistaken, but if I remember or read correctly, then that is the fact.

But by all means, if you have evidence that the MKIII can stand toe to toe with a MF camera, or even come close to it's performance, please share this information.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176834\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Any chance we could keep this thread on topic?  

MFDB vs. DSLR has been discussed a million times on this site. It doesn't need to be discussed here.

This thread is for people experiencing problems with what must surely be the most cocked up camera launch in history. (The B&H page for this camera now read: "Important Notice!
This item is temporarily not available. We have no estimated arrival date at this time." Ouch!   )

Thanks.

For the record, my camera is still with Canon UK. My agent is trying to negotiate a replacement (which is what happened with the troubled Mkll models) not a repair. Ironically, the demo camera they gave me as cover is also faulty.

In the UK, the British Journal of Photography's (think the NYT of UK photography in terms of influence) review has really made Canon wake up apparently. For those who don't know, they were given a faulty camera to review which was immediately replaced. The resulting review was good, but not brilliant. And, not unexpectedly, wide-angle lens performance came in for criticism. e.g. The TSE 24mm was slammed.

One thing coming out of all this is that photographs are made from pixels AND glass, not just pixels. Nikon must be chuckling quietly to themselves. If they launch a 20Mp+ camera in the next year, one thing we can all be sure of is that the glass will be better. It always is. However, I'm too committed to Canon now.

D.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 04:40:49 am by Dinarius »
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dwdallam

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« Reply #191 on: February 23, 2008, 06:27:31 am »

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Any chance we could keep this thread on topic?   
Nikon must be chuckling quietly to themselves. If they launch a 20Mp+ camera in the next year, one thing we can all be sure of is that the glass will be better. It always is. However, I'm too committed to Canon now.

D.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176846\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I thinks Canon screwed up with the MKIII. In any event, what glass does Nikon have that matches the Canon 70-200L IS?
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Paul2660

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« Reply #192 on: February 23, 2008, 10:37:42 am »

To give an idea of  MF Digital back.

US $29,990.00  
This is a deal being run right now by Phase One in the U.S.

For this you get the Phase One P45+  (39 MP no microlenses)
                             The Mamiya P645 body ready to take the back
                             The Mamiya 80mm Lens (50mm is 35mm Equivalent)
                             The Mamiya 28mm Lens (Not sure that the 35mm equivalent is)

That is good deal if you can afford it, as the 28mm lens from Mamiya is around 5.5K U.S.

They are also running similar deals on the P25+ and P30+, however in the U.S. I found the deal on the P25+ was very close to the same price as the P45+, around 4K diff, which surprised me.  You still get the P645 Mamiya body and the 80mm lens, no 28mm.

Paul Caldwell
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djgarcia

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« Reply #193 on: February 23, 2008, 10:54:57 am »

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I thinks Canon screwed up with the MKIII. In any event, what glass does Nikon have that matches the Canon 70-200L IS?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176852\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't think Canon screwed up with the 1DsIII as such - apparently their arrogance is just making them sloppy. The 1DsIII is really a fine camera, once it's up to specs. I had to send mine in twice, first to get the viewfinder parallax alignment fixed, then right back to fix the autofocus which they wacked when they fixed the parallax. The second repair took 4 days including shipping, so they thankfully did do the very best they could.

The camera is now working beautifully, and it would be painful to go back to my trusty 1DsII, now relegated to back-up bench warmer. I tend to do a lot of backlit shots and I have to say the fringing response of this camera in those high-contrast edges through my Zeiss lenses is very pleasant.
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dwdallam

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« Reply #194 on: February 23, 2008, 10:41:59 pm »

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To give an idea of  MF Digital back.

US $29,990.00 
This is a deal being run right now by Phase One in the U.S.

For this you get the Phase One P45+  (39 MP no microlenses)
                             The Mamiya P645 body ready to take the back
                             The Mamiya 80mm Lens (50mm is 35mm Equivalent)
                             The Mamiya 28mm Lens (Not sure that the 35mm equivalent is)

That is good deal if you can afford it, as the 28mm lens from Mamiya is around 5.5K U.S.

They are also running similar deals on the P25+ and P30+, however in the U.S. I found the deal on the P25+ was very close to the same price as the P45+, around 4K diff, which surprised me.  You still get the P645 Mamiya body and the 80mm lens, no 28mm.

Paul Caldwell
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176873\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I started a thread in the MF forums for this. but thanks for your reply.
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #195 on: February 24, 2008, 10:40:48 am »

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Nope, I haven't. But I will theorize that if the MKIII was comparable in quality to a MF, then MF would not sell. Not only that, but the size of a MF sensor is twice the size of of the MKIII's. Last, I've read in many different places, including this site in one of MR's essays, that MF kicks APS sensor quality's ass given equal pixel density. I could be mistaken, but if I remember or read correctly, then that is the fact.

But by all means, if you have evidence that the MKIII can stand toe to toe with a MF camera, or even come close to it's performance, please share this information.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176834\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

OK, thanks for confirming that you are talking from snippets of theory and not from anything you've tested. I've not participated in any discussion about the comparative image quality of a 1DsMk3 versus a medium format camera because I haven't either done the testing or seen any rigorous comparisons. Let me simply conclude here, because all this is off topic, that other factors in addition to those you mention contribute to image quality positively or negatively in a comparative sense, therefore it is important to talk specific models and configurations in making such comparisons. Just to give you a quick flavour of the difficulties - a Mamiya representative at a trade show told me that their 22 MP back would produce noticeably more noise than a Canon 1DsMk3 upwards of 200 ISO. So if I shoot at say 400 or 800 ISO to get a combnation of high enough shutter speed and low aperture for a landscape shot where I am hand-holding the camera and need good depth of field, which camera is likely to deliver a more acceptable result: the Canon or the Mamiya? I'm not answering that question because I haven't field-tested the Mamiya, but I'm just pointing out the dangers of generalizations based on incomplete theoretical information.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #196 on: February 24, 2008, 10:52:31 am »

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I don't think Canon screwed up with the 1DsIII as such - apparently their arrogance is just making them sloppy. The 1DsIII is really a fine camera, once it's up to specs. I had to send mine in twice, first to get the viewfinder parallax alignment fixed, then right back to fix the autofocus which they wacked when they fixed the parallax. The second repair took 4 days including shipping, so they thankfully did do the very best they could.

The camera is now working beautifully, and it would be painful to go back to my trusty 1DsII, now relegated to back-up bench warmer. I tend to do a lot of backlit shots and I have to say the fringing response of this camera in those high-contrast edges through my Zeiss lenses is very pleasant.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176878\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

DJ - yes I agree - the 1Ds3 really is a fine camera. I'm enoying using mine alot. With its many new features and technical advances it is much more use-friendly than the two previous models and produces great image quality. While Canon has difficult issues of corporate culture and quality consistency to deal with, they do know how to make very good cameras.

As for the near-by post from Dinarius generalizing about the superiority of Nikon lenses - I'll ask the same question I keep asking when I see these off-the-cuff generalizations - what is the body of evidence to confirm this contention? Both companies make lense that range in quality from excellent to so-so. Until I see convincing evidence one way or another I would refrain from generalizations about which company makes better lenses.
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dwdallam

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« Reply #197 on: February 24, 2008, 10:48:37 pm »

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DJ - yes I agree - the 1Ds3 really is a fine camera. I'm enoying using mine alot. With its many new features and technical advances it is much more use-friendly than the two previous models and produces great image quality. While Canon has difficult issues of corporate culture and quality consistency to deal with, they do know how to make very good cameras.

As for the near-by post from Dinarius generalizing about the superiority of Nikon lenses - I'll ask the same question I keep asking when I see these off-the-cuff generalizations - what is the body of evidence to confirm this contention? Both companies make lense that range in quality from excellent to so-so. Until I see convincing evidence one way or another I would refrain from generalizations about which company makes better lenses.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177072\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I've asked this question too, asked for links to the studies or specific lenses that beat Canon's, and I have yet to find any evidence. I asked specifically what Nikon lens is superior to the Canon 70-200IS L in that focal range?
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carl dw

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« Reply #198 on: February 25, 2008, 08:24:54 am »

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I've asked this question too, asked for links to the studies or specific lenses that beat Canon's, and I have yet to find any evidence. I asked specifically what Nikon lens is superior to the Canon 70-200IS L in that focal range?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177159\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


What is the relevance of this discussion in a thread headed "Canon 1ds3 alignment problems, Viewfinder vs image alignment"?

I'm sure another thread, maybe called "Lens masturbation for the uninitiated" could be started with just a few keystrokes... and we can get back on topic here. I notice others have tried to suggest this with such subtlety it has obviously been overlooked - please forgive my own lack of...!

Has anyone else had a MkIII back from Canon Service yet? - Any comments/thoughts good or bad?

Following my earlier disappointment I'm still on the fence about buying this camera.
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #199 on: February 25, 2008, 09:56:30 am »

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What is the relevance of this discussion in a thread headed "Canon 1ds3 alignment problems, Viewfinder vs image alignment"?

I'm sure another thread, maybe called "Lens masturbation for the uninitiated" could be started with just a few keystrokes... and we can get back on topic here. I notice others have tried to suggest this with such subtlety it has obviously been overlooked - please forgive my own lack of...!

Has anyone else had a MkIII back from Canon Service yet? - Any comments/thoughts good or bad?

Following my earlier disappointment I'm still on the fence about buying this camera.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Carl,

When people have teething problems with an 8000 dollar camera they naturally ask questions about whether they should look elsewhere and it becomes a slippery slope once the discussion meanders into related issues such as the qualities of the options. But you are correct, this thread has slid down the slope a bit more than it should have. But if only all of life's problems were so.

Now as for the camera, let me put it this way: I have now made about 2000 captures with this camera. I just returned from a wonderful 9 day field shoot in Yellowstone National Park and the Tetons (with "Travel Images" led by John Baker). It was really cold outside and the camera performed flawlessly. Focusing is fine and mine does not appear to have an alignment problem. The battery performance was astounding. A colleague with a 1Ds2 (Ni-cad battery) was having frozen battery problems while mine (L-I battery) just kept performing with tons of capacity to spare - which I can read to the accuracy of 1 percentage point on this camera - a new feature. My fingers froze (even wearing gloves) long before this battery ever will. The camera's useability is simply tremendously improved over the previous models. Everything is so much more accessible and easy to adjust. I am persuaded that the image quality is superb. For example, I've used it outdoors at night during a snowstorm at high ISO here in Toronto with low shutter speed and IS lenses and I think the results are fine [a href=\"http://www.markdsegal.com/toronto-winter/]Toronto Winter With My !ds3[/url] . I haven't had a chance to seriously review the Yellowstone shoot yet, but based on testing I've done with a range of other more usual subject matter here in Toronto, I think the image quality is fine.

Now whether you should buy this camera or not, at this point in time I would say is hard to advise about. There are a number of questions which only you can answer to your own satisfaction, so the only help I can legitimately offer is to suggest what those questions are about: (1) How many MP of resolution do you need for the output you will be producing, remembering that you can get commercially acceptable inkjet print quality for large prints at output PPI in the minimum range of 180-240 PPI. For many people 12 MP is more than enough, and there is a growing number of good choices in this size range. I like the 21 MP idea because it gives me much leeway to crop and still print big, but not everyone would find that important. (2) What are you using now and how urgent is it to up-grade? (3) What's your investment in Canon lenses and how much budget space do you have to contemplate a system change, considering that if you were to sell Canon and move to Nikon you will get about 50 cents on the dollar for the lenses. (4) If you want full-frame at the "bleeding edge", you have a choice between the 1Ds3, the Nikon D3 (still in even shorter supply than the Canon), and perhaps later in the year, a speculative Sony 24 MP camera, and a Nikon D3 successor speculated at 24 MP. Who knows when these last 2 cameras will appear, what they will cost and how they will perform compared with the Canon, but if you have time to wait and are prepared to switch systems,  why not wait and have an expanded range from which to select once enough comparative performance data emerges. The Nikon D3, from what I've seen, seems to be a fabulous product, but 12MP.

As for Canon's quality control issues, this alignment problem seems to be on the course of resolution. The evidence suggests that they are repairing them and returning them to their owners in fine condition. Perhaps they will have now tackled the problem at source, so for future purchasers this will be an irrelevant "early adaptor" issue with no longe-term consequences. It would be good if Canon came out of its shell and told people the status of the problem, but others have given-up trying to tell Canon things that are in their own interest, so I have no illusions about any announcements. Nonetheless, they aren't dummies and if they've solved the problem silently under the hood, in the final analysis that is what matters.

Hope this helps.

Mark
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