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Author Topic: Sidecar files - how to view them?  (Read 7022 times)

myc5

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Sidecar files - how to view them?
« on: January 08, 2008, 10:57:15 am »

If you shoot RAW+JPG the JPG comes into LR as a sidecar file. And let's say you convert the RAW to PSD & TIFF for the heck of it, they too become sidecar files, so how do you view any or all of the sidecar files?

Actually, does anyone konw, how do you do anything with sidecar files in LR?

I see the sidecar files listed in the metadata panel of the Library module, but from what I can tell it doesn't let me do anything with them. Can't right click, mouse over, nothing ... it just tells me that the extra files are there.

Sometimes I'd like to be able to compare an in camera JPG with one that's been photoshop'd.

Thanks.
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Tim Gray

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Sidecar files - how to view them?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2008, 12:33:27 pm »

Quote
If you shoot RAW+JPG the JPG comes into LR as a sidecar file. And let's say you convert the RAW to PSD & TIFF for the heck of it, they too become sidecar files, so how do you view any or all of the sidecar files?

Actually, does anyone konw, how do you do anything with sidecar files in LR?

I see the sidecar files listed in the metadata panel of the Library module, but from what I can tell it doesn't let me do anything with them. Can't right click, mouse over, nothing ... it just tells me that the extra files are there.

Sometimes I'd like to be able to compare an in camera JPG with one that's been photoshop'd.

Thanks.
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"the JPG comes into LR as a sidecar file" - not so.  

The Sidecar file is simply the a repository for the metadata instructions recorded in LR (or ACR) as to how the file should be rendered subsequently in  LR or ACR - any change you make to the file (jpg or raw) in LR can (if the option is enabled) be recorded in the sidecar file - so if you then open up that file in ACR it will know the setting you previously established in LR.  Bringing both the raw and jpg files into LR is a separate issue unrelated to the the sidecar files.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 12:34:11 pm by Tim Gray »
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myc5

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Sidecar files - how to view them?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2008, 01:42:57 pm »

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"the JPG comes into LR as a sidecar file" - not so.   

The Sidecar file is simply the a repository for the metadata instructions recorded in LR (or ACR) as to how the file should be rendered subsequently in  LR or ACR - any change you make to the file (jpg or raw) in LR can (if the option is enabled) be recorded in the sidecar file - so if you then open up that file in ACR it will know the setting you previously established in LR.  Bringing both the raw and jpg files into LR is a separate issue unrelated to the the sidecar files.
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Hmm, I don't believe this to be so. AFAIK the metadata instructions are stored in LR's catalog/library, not in sidecar files. I believe you can export the instructions for any given photo to a XMP file, in which case the XMP probably turns into a sidecar file also. I haven't exported instructions to .xmp perse, but this is how I believe it works.

The preview files generated by LR (jpg ?) are also stored elsewhere. Not sure eactly where but they're certainly not in the same folder as where my RAW photo's import to.

The way I believe sidecar files to function is that all files with same prefix but different extensions are considered the same photo and there's some sort of hierarchy as to which file is the main photo file. RAW seems to be on top of the hierarchy and all other files of same prefix, but different extensions are considered sidecar files.

From a CF card full of RAW+JPG shooting, I have certainly seen LR import both the RAW and the JPG into the newly created folder on disk, when browsing the folder in Windows Explorer (PC), yet the photo is shown only once inside the LR library (module) and LR chooses to show me the RAW file. (the filename is under the photo). It then tells me that this DCS12345.RAF ( Fuji raw files have a .RAF extension), has a sidecar file and shows only JPG as being a sidecar file. All this before even making any adjustments to the photo at all. Any adjustments I make are made with the .RAF as the base file.

Am I correct so far?

So, how do you operate or even just view the sidecar files?
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DarkPenguin

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Sidecar files - how to view them?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2008, 01:47:12 pm »

I use DNG files to avoid having XMP sidecars.
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Tim Gray

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Sidecar files - how to view them?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2008, 02:06:19 pm »

Quote
Hmm, I don't believe this to be so. AFAIK the metadata instructions are stored in LR's catalog/library, not in sidecar files. I believe you can export the instructions for any given photo to a XMP file, in which case the XMP probably turns into a sidecar file also. I haven't exported instructions to .xmp perse, but this is how I believe it works.
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An XMP file is a sidecar file.  Yes, LR stores the edits in their database, and you can either export to the xmp/sidecar file, or you can turn the option on to have changes to the xmp file automatically updated.  But without the updated xmp file other apps such as ACR won't know the changes made.  Unless, as the other poster notes you use the DNG format which incorporated the changes within the DNG file.

So I say again, you can't view an xmp file - it doesn't contain an image.  I don't shoot JPG and Raw so I can't help on how you would view the jpg independently from the raw, but it's got nothing to do with viewing the xmp file.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 02:09:23 pm by Tim Gray »
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john beardsworth

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Sidecar files - how to view them?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2008, 02:21:00 pm »

There's a bit of confusion here - in various LR documents, you can actually find them described as sidecars which is a lousy choice of words.

Look at Preferences / Import. There's an option so you import the JPEGs as separate files. That should fix your new shoots.

For existing files, I'd suggest reimporting the folders. Select the raw files, save the metadata (Ctrl S) so they all have xmp sidecars, then remove them from the catalogue (don't delete the files though!), make sure you've updated the import preference setting, and import the folders.

John
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 02:22:07 pm by johnbeardy »
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myc5

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Sidecar files - how to view them?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2008, 04:44:10 pm »

I'm not actually trying to fix anything, just trying to understand how/what I can do with the sidecar files when the sidecar file happens to be a jpg or tiff or psd.

I'd like to be able to right click on the sidecar jpg somehow and view it for comparison sake to the RAW being viewed, when I want to. Put the jpg beside the raw on the light table and compare them, yet keep it as a sidecar file. This could be particularly useful when using different raw conversion programs for example.

I don't want every photo that has a RAW + TIFF + PSD + JPG version to show up on the light table.

Perhaps this will come in version 1.5 of LR. As of v1.3, perhaps the use of sidecar files is unfinished business in LR.
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francois

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Sidecar files - how to view them?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2008, 03:33:25 am »

Quote
I'm not actually trying to fix anything, just trying to understand how/what I can do with the sidecar files when the sidecar file happens to be a jpg or tiff or psd.

I'd like to be able to right click on the sidecar jpg somehow and view it for comparison sake to the RAW being viewed, when I want to. Put the jpg beside the raw on the light table and compare them, yet keep it as a sidecar file. This could be particularly useful when using different raw conversion programs for example.

I don't want every photo that has a RAW + TIFF + PSD + JPG version to show up on the light table.

Perhaps this will come in version 1.5 of LR. As of v1.3, perhaps the use of sidecar files is unfinished business in LR.
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An imperfect way to show only RAW (or TIFF and other formats) is to use the Metadata Browser in the Library Module. Select the File Type that you want to display. You can combine two or more file types.
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Francois

john beardsworth

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Sidecar files - how to view them?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2008, 06:00:02 am »

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I'm not actually trying to fix anything, just trying to understand how/what I can do with the sidecar files when the sidecar file happens to be a jpg or tiff or psd.
I answered the subject of your post. As I said too, "sidecar" in this context is misleading.

Quote
I'd like to be able to right click on the sidecar jpg somehow and view it for comparison sake to the RAW being viewed, when I want to. Put the jpg beside the raw on the light table and compare them, yet keep it as a sidecar file. This could be particularly useful when using different raw conversion programs for example.

I don't want every photo that has a RAW + TIFF + PSD + JPG version to show up on the light table.
Do what I said about Preferences and use stacking - there's an auto stack feature and it's easy to view stacks open and closed. That sorts out your raw+jpeg shooting. Stacking derivative files is a touch more awkward. You can include them in the stack but Adobe have decided you can only stack images that are in the same folder, and it can still be fussy about importing files with names which are identical apart from their extensions. So your derivatives would need to be in the same folder. If that's OK by you, then you're done.

Quote
Perhaps this will come in version 1.5 of LR. As of v1.3, perhaps the use of sidecar files is unfinished business in LR.
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Every software program is unfinished business. It's just a matter of learning to make the best of the tools as they are now.
John
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 06:00:48 am by johnbeardy »
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