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Author Topic: Camera GPS units  (Read 11270 times)

nemophoto

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Camera GPS units
« on: January 05, 2008, 01:56:11 pm »

I have both the 1D and 1Ds Mark III's. Though I don't need it for my day to day "real" work, I love hiking and shooting landscapes to relieve stress. (Landscapes=No Clients=No Stress). I'd love to be able to, later, accurately locate the photo, whether in the US or Ireland or the Czech Republic or wherever.

Has anyone used any such unit, especially with the Canons? How, exactly does it work -- embeds within RAW file, added via post-processing, etc? Is it attached to the camera while shooting, or just "on" for data use later? I often use BreezeBrowser for quick editing and I've noticed that it can make use of this data, though I've never been quite sure how it works?

Thanks for the input

Nemo
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Misirlou

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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2008, 05:40:20 pm »

Nemo,

Not being able to afford a dedicated GPS just for photography, I found a way to use a GPS unit that I bought for another purpose to add coordinates to my pictures.

The GPS unit is a Garmin Forerunner 201 that I bought back in '04 to keep track of running and biking workouts. As with many cheap GPS units, you can download the position data logs pretty easily.

I was already using Downloader Pro to transfer shots from CF cards to the computer. You can set Downloader to look for GPS files in a specific location, and if they were recorded around the same time as the camera shots, it will append those coordinates to the appropriate EXIF fields as it saves them to the computer.

There are a couple of issues with this setup. First, the GPS has to be recording tracks as you shoot. It's easy to forget to turn it on. Second, the GPS and the camera have to be set to the same time zone. No big deal, once you've set them up the first time. Third, downloading the GPS tracks is an extra (annoying) step. But the big advantage to this plan is that I didn't have to pay for any new hardware or software.

An additional benefit is that I can apply this strategy to any digital shots from any camera. If downloader can see the files, it can add the GPS data.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 05:41:34 pm by Misirlou »
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Steve_Niedorf

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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2008, 10:05:13 am »

I don’t know if they actually introduced this product:  http://www.jobo.com/jobo_digital/photogps/gb/index.html

It is from Jobo and looks very good on paper.  One thing to keep in mind is if the software that matches the files with the data is compatible with your files, most notably RAWs.  

I know that Lightroom is able to add and view the GPS data and there are some tutorials around that show how: http://lightroom-news.com/index.php?s=gps

Also if you google geotag you get more stuff.  Sony made an inexpensive unit that you can find on ebay. But I’m sure that would work only with jpg.
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Hank

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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2008, 11:22:51 am »

I don't remember the software involved, but feel it is worth encouraging your search.  I know two geologists in entirely different agencies, for whom the process has been integral to their work for years.  But perhaps reflecting early software releases, both were forced to use Nikon cameras along with PC laptops.  That is in spite of the fact that one is otherwise a dedicated Nikon/Mac user and the other a dedicated Canon/PC user.  The first had to buy a PC laptop for dedicated use with the chosen GPS software, even though he continues to use Mac for everything else.  The second was forced to buy a Nikon pocket camera to run the system, even though Canon is his choice for photography in general.  "Forced" is the term they both use.

Software almost certainly has advanced in the interim, so Nikon/Canon and Mac/PC issues are not my point.  Rather I'm verifying the functionality of the process.  I've watched both return from the field and download their data to mapping software which then displays all their points as "hot keys" along a track on the map.  Click on one and an attached photo is displayed along with their field notes and data.  

It's a pretty magical system when you watch it at work.
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dilip

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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2008, 12:14:49 pm »

ATP has introduced a new product at CES. I'm not sure of it's availability, but you can read about it here http://photofinder.atpinc.com/

Essentially, after synchronizing the camera and device time, you pull the memory card (with photos) out of the camera, slide it into the device, and it location stamps each of the photos based on its record of where it was at a certain time. I know that Sony has a device that requires a computer to do the data tagging.  Most other GPS's can be used for this if they create a waypoint list.  

ATP seems to have a nifty little product, but there's no indication if it will tag RAW files, or just JPG.  In either case, it's log file can be sync'd to a computer to allow for location stamping like the other device out there.

--dilip
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Misirlou

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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2008, 12:37:10 pm »

Quote
ATP seems to have a nifty little product, but there's no indication if it will tag RAW files, or just JPG.  In either case, it's log file can be sync'd to a computer to allow for location stamping like the other device out there.

--dilip
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166149\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is an important issue to determine before you purchase. If I remember correctly, the software that came with the Sony GPS device would only tag pictures from Sony cameras. You might be able to read Sony GPS tracks with different software, such as Downloader Pro or one of the others, but I haven't seen a Sony unit myself.

Downloader doesn't care where the files came from, or what format they're in. In other words, it will happily attach GPS data to a jpg from a Nikon or a RAW from a Canon. It's just a couple of EXIF tags.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 12:45:54 pm by Misirlou »
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GregW

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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2008, 12:37:54 pm »

I have a GeoPic II which has proved to be excellent.  Right now it's a product for Nikon/Fuji cameras but its good enough that you should consider contacting them to see if a Canon unit is likely.  Lightroom handles the metadata without any fuss and it's only a 1 click operation to get a google maps view.



http://customidea.com/

I have no affiliation with the company, other than being a happy customer.
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Misirlou

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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2008, 01:35:22 pm »

This link indicates that the Sony unit will produce tracks that can be interpreted by third party software, such as Downloader:

http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2006/08/gps_m...ata4masses.html
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 01:35:46 pm by Misirlou »
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KevinA

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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2008, 03:39:22 pm »

Quote
I have both the 1D and 1Ds Mark III's. Though I don't need it for my day to day "real" work, I love hiking and shooting landscapes to relieve stress. (Landscapes=No Clients=No Stress). I'd love to be able to, later, accurately locate the photo, whether in the US or Ireland or the Czech Republic or wherever.

Has anyone used any such unit, especially with the Canons? How, exactly does it work -- embeds within RAW file, added via post-processing, etc? Is it attached to the camera while shooting, or just "on" for data use later? I often use BreezeBrowser for quick editing and I've noticed that it can make use of this data, though I've never been quite sure how it works?

Thanks for the input

Nemo
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I use [a href=\"http://oregonstate.edu/~earlyj/gpsphotolinker/]http://oregonstate.edu/~earlyj/gpsphotolinker/[/url] with a Garmin. You sync the gps time clock with the camera time clock, it then adds the lat long to to exif when you are back at a computer, it works with Canon raw files and any jpg image.


Kevin.
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Kevin.

John.Murray

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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2008, 11:32:36 pm »

There's a nice article describing Nathan Myhrvold's solution:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/Safari-Tips.shtml

He describes using a Sony GPS-CS1 device along with Downloader Pro in his workflow.
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nemophoto

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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2008, 07:17:31 pm »

Thanks everyone for the input. I looked into the Sony unit -- it's one Chris Breeze happen to show as an example of units that will work with BreezeBrowser's GPS tagging.

Do you have to connect these units directly to the camera, or do you use them separately and connect to a computer later? The GeoPic II looks interesting, if they develop it for Canons.
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Misirlou

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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2008, 08:41:04 pm »

Quote
Do you have to connect these units directly to the camera, or do you use them separately and connect to a computer later? The GeoPic II looks interesting, if they develop it for Canons.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166609\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No, you don't need to connect anything to the camera with any of these units, except the GeoPic. You'd probably want to hang the GPS from a backpack or something so that the antenna can see as much sky as possible. Ideally, it would be on top of your head, but most photgraphers aren't quite that dorky.
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Marsupilami

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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2008, 02:08:59 am »

with geotagging you should be aware of the limitations of this devices. It can happen that some of these devices do not work properly in forests, gaps, or towns with narrow roads and high buildings. And indoors is certainly also not possible, as these signals are very weak. Try to buy a unit which has the new and better SiRF Star III receiver, which is much more accurate and for example works also inside the camera bag, as long as you put it not under three layers of cloth or camera gear. It might be not important outdoors, but walking around in a big city, going with the underground, I certainly do not recomend to use expensive units like that attached outside of your camera bag.
Garmin devices have the bonus of working as a true gps, which can be a plus for hiking as the track back function is a kind of safety net for situations when you have lost orientation (snowstorm, fog,...) but you have to remeber to put it on all the time and only the active log is showing the time ! A saved log at garmin devices does not have time information and is useless for geotagging ! So not very practical for long trips, as you need a computer to download the active log.
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Misirlou

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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2008, 07:02:48 pm »

Quote
with geotagging you should be aware of the limitations of this devices. It can happen that some of these devices do not work properly in forests, gaps, or towns with narrow roads and high buildings. And indoors is certainly also not possible, as these signals are very weak. Try to buy a unit which has the new and better SiRF Star III receiver, which is much more accurate and for example works also inside the camera bag, as long as you put it not under three layers of cloth or camera gear. It might be not important outdoors, but walking around in a big city, going with the underground, I certainly do not recomend to use expensive units like that attached outside of your camera bag.
Garmin devices have the bonus of working as a true gps, which can be a plus for hiking as the track back function is a kind of safety net for situations when you have lost orientation (snowstorm, fog,...) but you have to remeber to put it on all the time and only the active log is showing the time ! A saved log at garmin devices does not have time information and is useless for geotagging ! So not very practical for long trips, as you need a computer to download the active log.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167258\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Most of that is true, but like a lot of tech things, there are some caveats. Garmin did indeed change their log file structure sometime in the last year or so, but this does not effect all units. The older models (like my old Forerunner 201) still output traditional time coded logs with no problem. I've seen 201s and 301s for sale in stores in the last few weeks, and I'm sure there are still many other Garmin units out there that would also work. Some of the newer ones encrypt some of the data so that you have to use (expensive) Garmin software to download complete log files.

GPS signals are very weak, but the signals are structured in such a way that good receivers can sometimes read in some really weird circumstances. I have one unit that is designed for aircraft navigation that will read just fine while I'm sitting inside my 100-year-old adobe house. Generally, the signals are most effected by trying to pass through anything that would conduct electricity (think wires, metal plates, aluminized window coatings, or even wet leaves). I also have a unit made for car navigation that has real problems when I tune the AM radio to certain specific frequencies.
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