iPF5100 media selection on LCD panel

[abiggs]

Even though I have something like 'Premium Matte Paper' selected in my printer driver when printing, does it matter what the actual printer says is the media type and size that is in the cassette? It doesn't appear to matter, but I just wanted to make sure. I just got the printer up and running today, and so far so good.

So far it has been fairly simple to setup, though more complex than what one needs to do with an Epson.

[Scott Martin]

does it matter what the actual printer says is the media type and size that is in the cassette?

No, the printer driver media selection will override what is set on the printer. The printer has media preferences that dictate things like suction, platen height, skew tolerances, etc when paper is loaded and handled. Lots of levels of customization if you want to geek out.

[abiggs]

So is it safe to say that whatever you have in the printer driver will override all of those settings on the printer? In other words, all variables like suction, platen height, skew tolerances, etc will take on the media type from the printer driver? If this is the case, it doesn't make any sense why it would even be an option on the printer in the first place.

[Scott Martin]

So is it safe to say that whatever you have in the printer driver will override all of those settings on the printer? In other words, all variables like suction, platen height, skew tolerances, etc will take on the media type from the printer driver?

No, the printer's setting dictates those variables but the driver's selection determines the base calibration (total ink limits, black ink type, color curves, etc) that effects color.

[abiggs]

It sounds like one should take the time to use the correct media type at the printer. The best scenario I can think of would be using a heavy fine art paper, which needs more suction in the paper handling, but it might not receive enough suction if you are using 'plain paper'. Kind of a pain, but workable.

[Scott Martin]

It sounds like one should take the time to use the correct media type at the printer.

Yes. The whole selecting the media at the printer also has advantages for workgroups where people are sharing the same printer.

[abiggs]

Yes. The whole selecting the media at the printer also has advantages for workgroups where people are sharing the same printer.
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Canon could still rework the printer driver to send over this kind of information. Seems fairly simple, as the printer driver and printer both have the same listing of media types.

I think I might leave my setting on Premium Matte Paper most of the time, even though I might use a lighter weight paper from time to time, like Enhanced Matte or Moab Lasal Matte.

[jerryrock]

The media setting that is physically set on the printer lcd control panel is what the printer will use despite setting a different media setting in the software driver. It is important to match the media setting to the paper and profile used.

The media setting affects ink type (photo or matte) and ink density. It also affects vacuum strength,  paper path selection, paper cutting (including cutting speed) and print head height.

[John Hollenberg]

The media setting that is physically set on the printer lcd control panel is what the printer will use despite setting a different media setting in the software driver. It is important to match the media setting to the paper and profile used.

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Jerry,

That is at odds with the Wiki:

[a href=\"http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/Media+Type+Conflict]http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/Media+Type+Conflict[/url]

and Scott's answer above.  Are you suggesting the Wiki is wrong???  

--John

[jerryrock]

Jerry,

That is at odds with the Wiki:

http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/Media+Type+Conflict

and Scott's answer above.  Are you suggesting the Wiki is wrong???   

--John
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Yes John, that is what I am suggesting. Why would the system even have a warning that can be turned off, if the software driver settings supersede what is set on the actual printer control panel?
This issue was the main criticism of the iPF5000 when it was first released. I do not believe the issue has been corrected. I am commenting about my experience with the iPF5000 and not the 5100.

It is the media detail types that can be modified from the software driver, not the media types themselves:

[a href=\"http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/Media+Type+Definition]http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/Media+Type+Definition[/url]

Page 50 of the Canon Reference Guide for the iPF5000 describes the cause and solution for paper rubbing against the print head as:
 "The paper type as specified on the printer does not match the type specified in the driver."
 solution:
" Make sure the same paper type is specified in the printer driver as on the printer.
 1. Hold down the stop/eject button for a second or more to cancel printing.
 2. Change the paper type in the printer driver and try printing again".

This would suggest that the media information in the printer is retained during a mismatch.
 

[John Hollenberg]

Jerry,

It may depend on the firmware version also.  We need a definitive answer from Canon, although Scott Martin is quite knowledgeable and I would trust his answer above.

--John

[jerryrock]

Jerry,

It may depend on the firmware version also.  We need a definitive answer from Canon, although Scott Martin is quite knowledgeable and I would trust his answer above.

--John
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Thanks John for not trusting my logic or knowledge!

I called Canon Tech Support today at 1:30pm and spoke to Paul who confirmed my statement that the printer uses the media (paper) setting that is set in the printer itself.  This information is not overridden by the software driver setting. The software driver media setting sets the color information as well as the media details but not the basic media type.

Please feel free to confirm this information. Canon Tech Support: 1 (800) 423-2366 ask for Paul
 

[John Hollenberg]

Thanks John for not trusting my logic or knowledge!

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No offense intended.  One of you is wrong (from my reading of the thread).  Scott Martin does this stuff for a living so I figured he was more likely to be correct.  While Canon support has improved a great deal, I would want to hear the answer from a higher source than regular support before I was sure of the correct answer.

--John

[Scott Martin]

The media setting that is physically set on the printer lcd control panel is what the printer will use despite setting a different media setting in the software driver

The software driver media setting sets the color information...

Jerry, don't these two statements of yours contradict each other? It's my understanding that when the settings are different the software setting determines the base calibration while the printer setting determines things like platen gap, suction, etc. This sounds like what you are also saying in your more recent post.

I called Canon Tech Support today and spoke to Paul who confirmed my statement that the printer uses the media setting that is set in the printer itself. This information is not overridden by the software driver setting.

Canon has told me in the past that the software setting overrides the hardware setting so they are being inconsistent.

If I load two sheets of paper both with Premium Matte Paper (PMP) set on the printer and make two prints, the first with the driver set to PMP and the second with the driver set to Special1 I get two different looking prints. This indicates that the software's media selection, not the printer's media selection determines the base calibration that must be married to the profile being used.  Are you seeing a different behavior based on actual printing, not conversation?

[John Hollenberg]

I ran Scott's test (set PMP at printer, Special 1 in plugin) on both iPF5000 and iPF6100.  For both printers, the setting of Special 1 in the plugin did override the setting of PMP at the printer.  The result was obvious from the weak black created by printing Special 1 (with Photo Black ink) on matte paper (in my case Epson Enhanced Matte).  I printed with PMP set at both printer and in the plugin and got a very different (and much better) result.

--John

[abiggs]

Very interesting, John. Now the next question is actually which settings were overridden. Was it just the ink load and black ink, or did it extend to include things such as suction, margins, etc.

[jerryrock]

Scott,

What I am saying (and have confirmed), is that the media setting must be set in the printer lcd control panel for the paper being used.  This setting determines paper path, vacuum strength, print head height, paper cutting adjustments, photo or matte black, and ink density (regarding paper type).

Color calibration information is sent from the printer driver, specific media type information can be adjusted from the printer driver but it does not override the printer media setting. Changing the printer driver to Premium Matte Photo will not override a setting of Special 1 on the printer.

The reason you are getting different looking prints in your example is the difference in the color settings of the media selection in the printer driver. You still have Premium Matte Paper set as the Media Type in the printer for both prints.  Try the same example changing the media setting in the printer to special 1. You will also see a totally different looking print because special 1 setting does not print with matte ink (photo only). This cannot be overridden from the printer driver and this is exactly my point.

[John Hollenberg]

The reason you are getting different looking prints in your example is the difference in the color settings of the media selection in the printer driver.
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I'm not sure what you mean by this.  All of my color settings are set to zero.  Can you expand on this?

Jerry, I can't confirm your statement.  I set Special 1 at the printer and PMP in the plugin, and I get the stronger matte black that corresponds to the PMP setting.  It is identical to the black produced when PMP is set at the printer (confirmed with measurement using a spectrophotometer):

Printer PMP, Plugin PMP - L* 19.3
Printer Special 1, Plugin PMP - L* 19.2
Printer PMP, Plugin Special 1 - L* 27.2

Edit: Firmware 1.31 installed on both printers (since I think it is possible that there may be differences depending on the firmware version).

Perhaps I am not understanding exactly what you are saying?

--John

[jerryrock]

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  All of my color settings are set to zero.  Can you expand on this?

Jerry, I can't confirm your statement.  I set Special 1 at the printer and PMP in the plugin, and I get the stronger matte black that corresponds to the PMP setting.  It is identical to the black produced when PMP is set at the printer (confirmed with measurement using a spectrophotometer):

Printer PMP, Plugin PMP - L* 19.3
Printer Special 1, Plugin PMP - L* 19.2
Printer PMP, Plugin Special 1 - L* 27.2

Edit: Firmware 1.31 installed on both printers (since I think it is possible that there may be differences depending on the firmware version).

Perhaps I am not understanding exactly what you are saying?

--John
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What I am saying is that each media type has a color profile that is associated with it. This color profile can be adjusted in the printer driver allowing for calibration. Other settings specific to the printer media type setting can not be adjusted by the printer driver.

No offense John, but I tend to believe the Canon Technical Support Representative because he "does this stuff for a living".  

[John Hollenberg]

What I am saying is that each media type has a color profile that is associated with it. This color profile can be adjusted in the printer driver allowing for calibration. Other settings specific to the printer media type setting can not be adjusted by the printer driver.
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To confirm that the Media Type set in the plugin does override the Media Type set on the printer LCD, do this simple experiment:

1) Create a one inch square image in Photoshop and fill it with pure black (0,0,0)
2) Open the Export Plugin and set the output profile to "None (no color correction)"
3) Set the Media type to Special 1 on both the printer LCD and at the plugin
4) Print the black square on Epson Enhanced Matte paper
5) Measure the L* value with a spectrophotometer

Result - L* 26.6  

This is the blackest black that can be printed with Special 1 Media Type on Epson Enhanced Matte.  To confirm this, decrease the Brightness in the plugin "Color Settings" tab to -30 and make another print.

Result - L* 26.5

6) Now make additional prints with Special 2-5 set at the both printer LCD and plugin
7) Measure the L* values with a spectrophotometer

Special 2 - L* 25.8
Special 3 - L* 25.3
Special 4 - L* 23.5
Special 5 - L* 23.8

Conclusion:  The darkest black that can be printed on EEM with photo black ink is L* 23.5 using Special 4 setting.

Make a final print with Special 1 set on printer LCD and Premium Matte set at the plugin
9) Measure the L* value with a spectrophotometer

Result: L* 19.4 (virtually identical to the L* value measured when both printer and plugin media type set to Premium matte)

Conclusion: The printer had to use matte black ink to make the print.  Hence the Premium Matte media type did override the Special 1 setting on the printer LCD.

--John