Topic: New TSA Rules on Lithium Batteries? (Read 8090 times)

phule · « **on:** December 28, 2007, 09:16:37 pm »

I'm not sure if this is new news or not, but it is certainly something I had not heard before:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h74l-Bi...pKRTuAD8TQK0CO0

The TSA is no longer allowing loose Lithium batteries in checked baggage and is limiting loose batteries for carry-ons to 2 per person.

Here's the link from the TSA website regarding these new rules:

http://phmsa.dot.gov/portal/site/PHMSA/men...0001ecb7898RCRD

In a rather confusing statement, the TSA also says:

"Safety testing conducted by the FAA found that current aircraft cargo fire suppression system would not be capable of suppressing a fire if a shipment of non-rechargeable lithium batteries were ignited in flight."

phule · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2007, 11:41:22 pm »

Better url here:

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

budjames · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2007, 06:36:51 am »

Good tip. Thanks.
Bud

stever · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2007, 04:38:56 pm »

has anybody figured out what this practically means? e.g.:

how many non-rechargeable 123A?

how many rechargeable AA?

how many bp 511a?

if a battery is in it's charger does that qualify as a device?

of course the 123A and AA issues can be taken care of by packing a few cheap flashlights

this has the makings of a real problem when going to places where you need lots of spares given my experience random understanding/enforcement by TSA inspectors

DiaAzul · « **Reply #4 on:** December 29, 2007, 04:51:09 pm »

Quote

has anybody figured out what this practically means? e.g.:

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163884\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If you have a Canon 1DII or 1DsII you are OK as they are Nickel Metal Hydride and, therefore, exempt from this ruling. If you have decided to buy a 1DIII or 1DsIII you need to consider your options carefully.

Jonathan Wienke · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2007, 09:54:29 pm »

My experience suggests that if they are batteries for a specific device like a 1Ds-MkIII, you are probably fine. My camera bag is a carry-on containing 2 Canon 1-series bodies, 7 lenses, 4 flash units, and 4 total batteries, and TSA has never asked whether the camera batteries were lithium or NiMH. I've also had a bottle of Eclipse sensor cleaning fluid (pure methanol, highly flammable, and definitely not permitted) in the bag for 5 or 6 years and have been through TSA security at least 15 times and nobody has noticed it yet. When they look in the bag (and they usually do), the screener's reaction is usually along the lines of "whoa, that's a lot of camera s**t", they occasionally look through a lens or viewfinder, and sometimes they swipe the bag for explosive residue. I've never had anyone ask about batteries; ones for the 1Ds-MkII would probably be under the gram limit anyway, if laptop batteries are OK; laptops draw far more power than a DSLR.

DonWeston · « **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2007, 07:54:18 am »

The new lithium battery "guidelines" are to take effect Jan 1, 2008 to my knowledge. Things may change or not, and since "rules" can be interpreted differently at different airports, it will be interesting to see how things turn out as far as when they are in practice.....

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #7 on:** December 30, 2007, 05:56:19 pm »

Quote

If you have a Canon 1DII or 1DsII you are OK as they are Nickel Metal Hydride and, therefore, exempt from this ruling. If you have decided to buy a 1DIII or 1DsIII you need to consider your options carefully.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163888\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I doubt this will be an issue for these cameras. THe battery for a 1DsMkIII is Lithium-Ion not Lithium Metal, and one battery charge is good for about 2000 activations. It would be permitted installed in the camera and a spare (if you think you need one) would be permitted in carry-on bags, provided the lithium-equiv content is no more than 8 grams each battery. In this case the battery is rated at 32 watt-hours, and according to the tiny-url provided above, 8 grams equates to about 100 watt-hours, so the 1DsIII battery is well below the allowable limit, according to that information and what I read on my battery.

CatOne · « **Reply #8 on:** December 30, 2007, 07:37:08 pm »

Quote

I doubt this will be an issue for these cameras. THe battery for a 1DsMkIII is Lithium-Ion not Lithium Metal, and one battery charge is good for about 2000 activations. It would be permitted installed in the camera and a spare (if you think you need one) would be permitted in carry-on bags, provided the lithium-equiv content is no more than 8 grams each battery. In this case the battery is rated at 32 watt-hours, and according to the tiny-url provided above, 8 grams equates to about 100 watt-hours, so the 1DsIII battery is well below the allowable limit, according to that information and what I read on my battery.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164112\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

LOL. Of course the batteries are Lithium Ion and not Lithium metal. Lithium the metal is about as unstable as they come. Might as well board the plane with a lit stick of dynamite

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #9 on:** December 30, 2007, 08:07:41 pm »

If you read the regulation, you will see that they quote separate and different restrictions depending on whether it is Lithium Ion or Lithium Metal, so I was just reflecting that fact. And no thanks, I don't need an exploding MK3.

DonWeston · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2007, 01:36:59 pm »

Quote

If you read the regulation, you will see that they quote separate and different restrictions depending on whether it is Lithium Ion or Lithium Metal, so I was just reflecting that fact. And no thanks, I don't need an exploding MK3.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164138\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I can think of one MK3 shooter who felt like sticking some C4 on his and blowing it up over the focusing issue. when he gets his back hopefully his feelings will change.... But that is a whole other issue....

John Camp · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2007, 03:41:21 pm »

Another guy and I are leaving the US for the Middle East on Jan. 5 with both still-photo and video gear, and numerous lithium-ion batteries. We think we'll be okay, since most of the regulation apparently is aimed at loose unprotected batteries. The TSA wants them packed in plastic bags (Ziplocs) or actually inserted in their devices (whatever those may be.)

The big problem will occur if we run into a dumb security guy, who starts trying to parse the regulations on his own.

I don't think this regulation will stand for long, as it is. It will quickly get much clarification when the network guys start complaining that they can't cover the elections without batteries for their cameras. Unfortunately, that will take a few weeks - say, between the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary. The football playoffs may also be influential.

The big stupid thing that these guys did was to impose the regulation overnight. There should have been some warning that it was coming; I'm not sure the urgency was that great, given that they don't know for sure that there's ever been a problem.

JC

phila · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2008, 05:00:49 am »

The 1Ds MkIII battery is rated at 2300mAh / 11.1V = 25.53 watt hours = no problems!

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #13 on:** January 01, 2008, 10:22:46 am »

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The 1Ds MkIII battery is rated at 2300mAh / 11.1V = 25.53 watt hours = no problems!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164351\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Correct, not a problem; but please see post #8 above. Canon itself calls it 32WH marked on the battery itself, while your arithmetic looks OK to me. I wonder whether there is some correction factor they include in the formula to get their number.

Jonathan Wienke · « **Reply #14 on:** January 01, 2008, 09:20:21 pm »

I went through airport security again today, and they opened my camera bag and swiped some of the stuff for explosive residue, but didn't even look at the spare batteries. And I had a ziploc bag with 4 CR123 lithium batteries (spares for my SureFire LED flashlight) and a spare cell phone battery and that went through the scanner without comment, as did my iPod Touch and a generic-looking black box about the size of the iPod that is a lithium battery pack with a USB output that can be used as an extended power source for any USB-powered device.

fike · « **Reply #15 on:** January 02, 2008, 12:22:13 pm »

This is another great use for a spouse or traveling companion. Pass off half your extra batteries to your sherpa--I mean spouse--and you are golden.

DonWeston · « **Reply #16 on:** January 02, 2008, 01:54:42 pm »

Spousal assistance like that can often come with a price disproportionate to the actual task.....

Colorado David · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2008, 12:23:09 am »

I received the notification of this regulation through ASMP. I sent it on to a couple of other professional organizations and then spoke with a guy at Anton Bauer, the maker of my large video camera's batteries. He explained the regulation to me. It is not well written so it can be confusing. Here's the deal; as long as your individual batteries contain less than 8 grams of lithium each, there is no limit to the number you can carry in your carry-on bag as long as they are packaged to keep the terminals from making contact with each other. My 90 watt hour Anton Bauer batteries contain less than 8 grams each. If your batteries are greater than 8 grams of lithium each, then you are limited to one installed on your camera and two spares, none in checked bags except on a device. Any of the CR123's are not rechargeable and are not covered by the regulation. No Lithium rechargeable AA's are covered by the regulation. The bottom line is just keep your batteries individually packaged and in your carry-on and you'll be fine. If in doubt, go to the web site someone posted above and print out the regulation. If a TSA agent questions your batteries, get out your copy and explain that all your batteries are less than 8 grams of lithium each. Good travels.

kaelaria · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2008, 04:17:24 am »

Quote

I've also had a bottle of Eclipse sensor cleaning fluid (pure methanol, highly flammable, and definitely not permitted) in the bag for 5 or 6 years and have been through TSA security at least 15 times and nobody has noticed it yet.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163962\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Wow - same here, never even thought about it!

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #19 on:** January 08, 2008, 07:53:06 am »

Yes, well, all that goes to show is much of our so-called airport security is really "feel good" stuff, based on the theory that if they create enough hoopla and inconvenience for passengers, the passengers will feel somehow protected, when in point of fact they are not, because the time and resources needed to really bomb-proof a transportation system far exceed anyone's inclination to deploy. No doubt they are making it more difficult for the trouble-makers to impair safety, and that is good, but we are no-where near safe; therefore, the boundaries of what makes sense in terms of practicality and strategic effectiveness should be more carefully studied in the regulations they adopt - it would be nice if this principle got through to the regulators all over the place, but no-where more than to the folks of lesser imagination (being polite here) running the British Ministry of Transport, BAA and their security services.

Author Topic: New TSA Rules on Lithium Batteries? (Read 8090 times)