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Author Topic: Epson 3800 Dark Prints  (Read 8049 times)

Booswalia

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Epson 3800 Dark Prints
« on: December 24, 2007, 12:02:04 pm »

I just purchase an Epson 3800 printer to replace the r2400 that I was using and my prints seem to be very dark.  
I'm using Lightroom and CS3 for processing and I'm printing with Qimage.  To be honest I'm totally lost and really don't know where to start or even look to try to fix things.

Any suggestions?
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Mort54

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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2007, 12:34:11 pm »

I guess the first thing I'd check is whether you've properly installed the 3800 profiles, and then selected the correct profile during printing. Very dark, and sometimes overly saturated, prints can be a symptom of incorrect profile use.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 12:34:42 pm by Mort54 »
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Booswalia

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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2007, 01:27:55 pm »

Quote
I guess the first thing I'd check is whether you've properly installed the 3800 profiles, and then selected the correct profile during printing. Very dark, and sometimes overly saturated, prints can be a symptom of incorrect profile use.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162882\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the reply Mort54,

I'm using Ultra Premium Presentation paper (formerly Enhanced Matte paper) and have that chosen that in the Print Setup. Color Management is turned off. In Qimage I have the printer profile enabled and set to Pro38 EMP.icm and I'm using perceptual with blackpoint compensation checked. Nothing has changed since I was using the R2400 other than the profile.
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duraace

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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2007, 01:32:48 pm »

What OS are you working under?
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Booswalia

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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2007, 01:40:25 pm »

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What OS are you working under?
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Windows XP.
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Farmer

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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2007, 03:09:45 pm »

Are you using the 10.0.1 update to CS3?  One of the fixes in that dot release included the way CS3 communicates with certain types of printers, the Pro 3800 included.
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Phil Brown

Booswalia

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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2007, 04:35:11 pm »

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Are you using the 10.0.1 update to CS3?  One of the fixes in that dot release included the way CS3 communicates with certain types of printers, the Pro 3800 included.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162922\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, that's the version I'm using.  
My monitor is fairly new too and it's an LCD type.  I did calibrate it with a Sypder 2 but it seems very bright to me.  I can see where that would cause my recent images to darken, but when I print images that I created over a year ago, they too appear darker.

I was using the Epson profiles on the R2400. Would it have been that "off", do you think?
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duraace

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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2007, 05:54:28 pm »

If it's any help, I'm getting close to perfect screen to printer from Lightroom on the 3800 under the Mac os 10.5.1 using Epson profiles.  Likely not the printer. I've also calibrated using Spyder2, but I wouldn't describe the LCD monitor as overly bright.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 05:56:01 pm by duraace »
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GregW

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« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2007, 07:47:00 pm »

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Yes, that's the version I'm using. 
My monitor is fairly new too and it's an LCD type.  I did calibrate it with a Sypder 2 but it seems very bright to me.  I can see where that would cause my recent images to darken, but when I print images that I created over a year ago, they too appear darker.

I was using the Epson profiles on the R2400. Would it have been that "off", do you think?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162933\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What target Luminance (cd/m2) target setting are you using?  Martin Evening recommends 110-140* but I find these a little high for many modern desktop LCD displays.  Try something around 90-100.

*Evening, M. The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Book. Peachpit. 2007
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vandevanterSH

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« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2007, 08:31:32 pm »

Quote
I just purchase an Epson 3800 printer to replace the r2400 that I was using and my prints seem to be very dark. 
I'm using Lightroom and CS3 for processing and I'm printing with Qimage.  To be honest I'm totally lost and really don't know where to start or even look to try to fix things.

Any suggestions?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162876\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Have you printed directly from LR?   I had the same problem when I first got my 3800.  Turned out that I was using incorrect profile.   Recently had problems after upgrading to Leopard..that was fixed with latest driver release.


Steve
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AaronPhotog

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« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2007, 03:04:58 am »

I have had the same problem with my 3800.  After 3 months of total frustration, and two attempts to replace the printer with refurbished units (one arrived smashed, the other performed badly, also printing too dark, and it coughed and wheezed the whole time).  I reached the conclusion that the two working printers might both be overinking, so I sent the replacements back and kept my original one.

Prior to coming to that conclusion I couldn't even make a decent profile with PrintFix Pro.  The target was too dark for the profiler to work.  It couldn't figure out the colors of the patches that were just some version of black.  The resulting prints were still muddy.  The overinking occurred whether I was using CS2 or CS3 from windows XP.  

Once I started experimenting with the ink settings in the Epson driver (color/advanced page), I was able to print targets that were closer to the screen versions, and then the profiler was able to do its job.  Now, I get very clean results with the profiles I make, but canned profiles don't work at all.  The method I use is to print the profile target with the following settings:  Cyan (-)10, Magenta (-)5, Yellow 0, Saturation +10, Epson gamut 2.2.  High speed is off.  I convert the image to the resultant profile in Photoshop and print it from Qimage, always with the same adjustments as above.  (I don't assign the profile in Qimage as the results are not the same).  Qimage gives me a fairly good indication of how the print will look on the page preview.  I know you aren't supposed to print targets with adjustments like this, but this was the only way that worked for me.  The Atkinson test print is now a dead-on match for the screen.  

This method is not ideal, but I was getting tired of lugging printers back and forth in hopes of finding a good one.  I think a bunch of machines left the factory uncalibrated.  Read their claim carefully, and you'll wonder if they calibrate individual machines or just one or two out of a batch.  Nothing is clear about it, and you certainly have not received a certificate of calibration for that specific serial number, have you?

I attempted to recalibrate the machine with Epson Europe's ColorBase.  No go.  Again, it was too far off, and the program reported that there was too much error, and that it would not be able to calibrate the printer.

That said, Epson was kind enough to let me keep the ink it sent with the two "replacement" machines for my troubles.  Now, with the rather quirky workaround method outlined above, the original 3800 gives me beautiful prints.

Meanwhile, the ImagePrint salesman claims that I should not have the same problems if I use their RIP, as it controls the printer directly.  They don't have a demo that will print, but they do offer a 30 day return if you don't like it.  I don't know whether they are up to date with their profiles for all the newer, and much improved papers, so I haven't sprung for it yet.  However, that may be an option for you.

Good luck and Mele Kalikimaka,

Aaron
« Last Edit: December 25, 2007, 03:08:15 am by AaronPhotog »
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Aaron Dygart,
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« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2007, 06:49:44 am »

An Epson service agent should be able to run a linearisation similar to Colorbase but at a firmware level, if you think that the machine is off base.
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Phil Brown

Booswalia

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« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2007, 12:22:07 pm »

Quote
What target Luminance (cd/m2) target setting are you using?  Martin Evening recommends 110-140* but I find these a little high for many modern desktop LCD displays.  Try something around 90-100.

*Evening, M. The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Book. Peachpit. 2007
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162954\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There doesn't seem to be a target luminance available with the Spyder 2.  When you choose LCD as the type of monitor it reads...
Luminance Mode: visual
White Luminance: na
Black Luminance: na

There doesn't seem to be a way of changing these.
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David Sutton

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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2007, 06:28:58 pm »

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There doesn't seem to be a target luminance available with the Spyder 2.  When you choose LCD as the type of monitor it reads...
Luminance Mode: visual
White Luminance: na
Black Luminance: na

There doesn't seem to be a way of changing these.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163028\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm using Spyder 2 with a Dell monitor, Windows xp, printfix profiler thingy and Qimage. With the Spyder 2 dialogue you have the "select display type" screen. You selected "lcd" and clicked on "next". Now you have the "select target" screen. Next to the "back/next" buttons there is the "new" button. Click it and you can set gamma (2.2), white point (native). ambient light compensation (off), luminance mode (measured), Black (.27) and white (80). The figures in brackets are my settings which may not suit you. My lcd monitor has it's brightness set to 9 and the luminance in spyder 2 is a low 80 because I was getting sore eyes. I can't now remember why I chose the other settings, but it seems to work well for me. Good luck, David
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Booswalia

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« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2007, 08:24:11 pm »

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I'm using Spyder 2 with a Dell monitor, Windows xp, printfix profiler thingy and Qimage. With the Spyder 2 dialogue you have the "select display type" screen. You selected "lcd" and clicked on "next". Now you have the "select target" screen. Next to the "back/next" buttons there is the "new" button. Click it and you can set gamma (2.2), white point (native). ambient light compensation (off), luminance mode (measured), Black (.27) and white (80). The figures in brackets are my settings which may not suit you. My lcd monitor has it's brightness set to 9 and the luminance in spyder 2 is a low 80 because I was getting sore eyes. I can't now remember why I chose the other settings, but it seems to work well for me. Good luck, David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163080\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Interesting.  I don't have that New button.  I wonder if I need an update.
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David Sutton

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« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2007, 08:46:56 pm »

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Interesting.  I don't have that New button.  I wonder if I need an update.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163109\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Maybe different versions? I have spyder2pro2.2-4. When you get to the "current settings" screen do you have a "change these settings" radio button selected (just above the help question mark)?
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Booswalia

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« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2007, 09:02:21 pm »

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Maybe different versions? I have spyder2pro2.2-4. When you get to the "current settings" screen do you have a "change these settings" radio button selected (just above the help question mark)?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163113\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mine is version 1.0.5.  I have a Change button, but it's not a radio button.  Looks like I may have to buy a new one.  
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David Sutton

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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2007, 01:00:17 am »

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Mine is version 1.0.5.  I have a Change button, but it's not a radio button.  Looks like I may have to buy a new one. 
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Sorry I can't be more help. It took me a lot of hair tearing to work out how to set it up (probably not the manufacturer's fault). All I can suggest is starting with that  change button or maybe you may find something in their legacy guides at [a href=\"http://www.colorvision.com/dl_manuals_legacy.php]http://www.colorvision.com/dl_manuals_legacy.php[/url].
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Booswalia

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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2007, 06:22:57 am »

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Sorry I can't be more help. It took me a lot of hair tearing to work out how to set it up (probably not the manufacturer's fault). All I can suggest is starting with that  change button or maybe you may find something in their legacy guides at http://www.colorvision.com/dl_manuals_legacy.php.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163146\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Taquin.  You have been very helpful.  I have a place to start now.
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GregW

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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2007, 08:37:51 am »

Do you have the possibility of borrowing another calibration device from a friend or friendly local store?  The i1Display 2 and Eye-one Match software allow you to dial in the relevant settings.
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