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Author Topic: Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture  (Read 7950 times)

shelby_lewis

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« on: December 22, 2007, 11:30:59 am »

Hey All,

Haven't posted here in a few years, but was hoping to get a bit of advice.

I'm an architect who also shoots a lot of portraits (www.shelbylewis.com)... and was looking a few years back at a small 6x9 view camera as a means to begin transitioning towards shooting architecture digitally.

I've a few years of research as far as common practice in the arch photog field (canon and zeiss lenses, zork, mfdbacks, and so forth) but am still very intrigued with the idea of shooting with a view camera... at least from an "artistic process" pov.

I'll be keeping a minimal 35mm digital set-up for portraits and weddings and have a fairly limited starting budget so i was looking at an  Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line C (Compact) Camera as a starting place to shoot some film with... then transitioning slowly into digital.

My only concern is with the focus tolerances with digital. Is it a must to use something in the monolith line... or a linhof m679... or cambo ultima series?

Just getting re-started in my investigations about digital view camera use... so would appreciate feedback.

Again... I'm an architect by profession... so I don't do this for a true living... so the convenience of a 35mm digital slr and client turnaround are not big considerations.

Thanks all... and Merry Christmas!
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shelby_lewis

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2007, 11:31:58 am »

forgot to mention... I'll be eventually moving to a one shot back, not a scan back.
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Sheldon N

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2007, 11:52:50 am »

Arca makes some great stuff. I shoot 4x5 film with mine.

IMHO, if you are going to shoot digital and are concerned with tight tolerances and precision adjustment of movements, I'd look at the F-Metric series which gives you geared rise and geared shift, and make sure that you order the Micro-Metric Orbix option, which gives you geared front axial tilt. You can add Orbix to the plain F-Line if you dont need the precision geared shift and rise of the F-Metric.

The regular F-Line compact is more than rigid enough when locked down, and adjusting the basic manual (friction) shift/swing/rise/tilt movements is very smooth. The focusing is also very precise, no concerns at all about being able to dial it in as precise as you'd like.

Where I think you might run into a little difficulty is with using front tilt movements without the Orbix. I find that I use indirect rise a good deal (point the camera up at the subject, then use the bubble levels on the front and rear standards to relevel them both with base tilt). While the bubble levels are accurate, I find it nice to be able to use Orbix to fine tune the precise tilt angle to make sure I have the standards perfectly parallel, double checking focus at both the top and bottom of the ground glass. If you had to do this manually (loosen lock, position the standard by hand, relock, check focus, etc) I think you'd have a tougher time than if you had Orbix, esp for the degree of precision required by a MFDB.

Ultimately, I think the Arca is a great choice. Just be sure to budget for Orbix.
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BJNY

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2007, 06:17:05 pm »

I'd only be looking at an Alpa for architectural work.
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Guillermo

shelby_lewis

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2007, 06:37:15 pm »

Sheldon... thanks for the insights... will definitely take into consideration.

Thanks,
Shelby
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shelby_lewis

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2007, 06:39:53 pm »

Quote
I'd only be looking at an Alpa for architectural work.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162579\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Specifics? (Not much help to me without some expressed rationale.)

BTW... Alpa is definitely on my list, but a view camera is what I'm interested in learning more about.

Thanks,
Shelby
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BJNY

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2007, 07:08:31 pm »

Shelby,
If you look back over a few pages of this forum, there'll be many threads with good info posted by shooters Eric S., Rainer V., et. al.  

Why Alpa?
The use of [extreme] wide angle lenses require planes to be absolutely parallel.  
The savings in weight and volume will be felt.

Regards,
Billy
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Guillermo

MarkKay

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2007, 07:09:52 pm »

I am selling a rollei x act 2 set up complete with 4  lenses and sliding back.
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rsmphoto

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2007, 07:14:34 pm »

After a substantial time in my career shooting architecture with various 4x5 Linhofs, a Sinar P2, I settled on and shot with an Arca 6x9 F-Line, then an F-Metric for over 15 years. Great camera, especially for air travel. You definitely need geared movement with digital...and eventually you'd want new lenses designed for digital work. A back that provides for Live View while shooting tethered would help as well.

And now? I shoot with a Hasselblad H3DII-39
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Picto

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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2007, 07:54:29 pm »

Quote
And now? I shoot with a Hasselblad H3DII-39
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

And what about movements? Don't you need them anymore? Are todays' architecture photographers doing it all in post processing? I ask because I'm trying to figure out the best solution for architectural photography for myself.

Tom
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rsmphoto

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2007, 11:04:42 pm »

To my way of thinking, there is no "best solution" for architectural photography. There is only the way that best suits you, your style, and your vision. It may be an Alpa, it may be an Arca, or something else.

Peace to all on this solstice day.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2007, 07:26:07 am by rsmphoto »
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pixjohn

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2007, 12:47:31 am »

Personally I shoot with a Cambo Wide DS. I would personally stick with the Cambo Wide, Alpa or other Medium format camera made for architecture. Why add another element with a 6x9 or even a 4x5 trying to deal with a digital back. Sometime simple is more.
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adammork

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« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2007, 09:16:31 am »

Shelby,
When shooting films, long time ago :-), I started with a M679, then got an Arca Monolith 6x9/4x5 and finally an Arca Misura, wich in my opinion is a fantastic camera for architecture if you use film....

I tried to use my Arca's when I went digitally, it's absolutely possible, but I will only recommend this route if you have the system all-ready. It's simply a royal pain.... to get a sharp images with a 24mm, and from time to time with the 35mm as well.
The imperfection of the system shows less clearly from 45mm and up. But you have to focus very carefully and check the standards if they are parallel all the time. film seems in practical use a bit more forgiven than a chip.

I now use Alpa XY, SWA and TC for my Aptus 75 & 22 this works like a charm, it literarily takes about half the time to compose and focus the image, and you have this nice secure feeling in you stomach that the images you bring home are sharp all over the frame.

So going for a new camera system for architecture I would take a close on the Alpa or similar type like the Cambo Wide. The Alpa may have the advantages that it is as much a film system as a digital system, so that could make the transition a bit easier.

And the Alpa XY is getting a little brother next year..... the Alpa 12 MAX

Happy holiday
Adam
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rueyloon

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2007, 09:25:52 am »

I shoot with the alpa 69, and I have assistant a photographer using the alpa XY so I can compare the 2. If you have the money and the jobs, go with the Alpa, or cambo wide DS.

Go with the arca swiss only if you already have the camera. Adding lenses to the arca will be less expensive. But the arca will take you a longer time to setup furthermore you can never be 100% sure the standards are all parallel.

Unless it is your style, tilting or swings are not really necessary.

The widest you can go with the arcaswiss is the 35mm. I only have 2mm of space left with that lens. I've read of people using the arca swiss with the 24mm but I don't understand how can it fit.

cheers
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adammork

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2007, 09:34:00 am »

The widest you can go with the arcaswiss is the 35mm. I only have 2mm of space left with that lens. I've read of people using the arca swiss with the 24mm but I don't understand how can it fit.

cheers
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162672\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]


You revert the back standard when you use the 24mm, you will then gain the necessary mm's

/A
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shelby_lewis

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2007, 04:18:38 pm »

Thanks everyone... some really useful comments.

I guess then I'm where I started, in that I will not have the capital set aside to go digital from the outset... so I'm in a tough position... shoot 4x5 film for a while or continue shooting 35mm digital while getting the funds together for an alpa-esque solution.

The parallelism of standards was a major concern for me... especially seeing that I wouldn't be going straight into a 7-10k arca monolith with geared movements and the orbix attachments... and as someone who has essentially no LF experience, I'm sure using the entry level (is there such a thing?  ) arca would be problematic fo me (from a process pov).

A question then (my ignorance about the alpa type cameras will show here): how well will the alpa or cambo wide cameras work with film as a temporary solution?

To fill in some details from my earlier post... I've just come onboard an architectural firm who is really old school... so I'm currently bringing the 3d modeling and "all-things-digital" department up to date for them... included in this is a longterm project photographing and documenting past projects and implementing a website.... so I do have some time to upgrade equipment since most reproduction will be for web use (at least in the near-term).

I'd like to shoot soon though... even if mf or lf film... just for the practice.

I can "see architecturally" just fine... it's just my current equipment lacks for truly high-end presentation (canon xxD cameras and pro glass).

Your continued thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Thanks All,
Shelby
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shelby_lewis

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2007, 04:21:54 pm »

...to clarify: I am also intersted in the alpa/cambo wide cameras as a permenant solution...

my question was if one could use film with them effectively for architectural work (in the short term)

thanks!
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Jost von Allmen

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Arca-Swiss 6x9cm F-Line Compact for architecture
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2007, 05:26:10 pm »

Hi Shelby
I myself have been using a complete ARCA Swiss 6x9 and 4"x5" system for over 15 years, mainly for landscape but also for some architectural work with great results.
But when I did all the testing before buying into a digital system (digital back and lenses) I soon discovered that the mechanical tolerances in my analog system were simply too big, the standards were well enough parallel for film but definitely not for MFD.
So I ended up selling all ARCA gear and buying the ALPA SWA with which I'm completely satisfied now for my kind of work.
To answer your question: Yes, it's very easy to use film with the ALPA, simply choose any of the various roll film backs up to 6x9cm. Check their website www.alpa.ch
You have to take into consideration however, that digitally optimized lenses (like the Rodenstock HRs or Schneider Digitars) have a relatively small a cicle of image.
If you buy lenses which let you shift e.g. all the way up to 25mm on film, they will not resolve enough for the high resolution digital backs available today.
I'm using a P45+ and have come to the conclusion that I'd rather buy a lens with limited   possibilities for shifting but super resolution instead.

Hope that helps
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Jost von Allmen
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