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Author Topic: Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files  (Read 4769 times)

David WM

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« on: December 20, 2007, 10:14:29 pm »

When I shoot to CF card with my e22 and have copied the files to my Mac and I end up with a bunch if IA/BR files with seemingly random file names (like 1DA56745.IA or 1DA546AE.IA).  Is there any way of making sense of these file names or applying a file name automatically which is more useful. It seems to me that the only way to structure the shoot is to look at the  "date modified" field in the file browser and having  the files display in date order (the date created field defaults to 1/1/1904,so that is not much use). The problem here is once I have processed the files with eMotion dng the date modified changes and I lose the file order.

I suppose that if I batch convert to dng and then do a batch file name change to something meaningful while preserving the original file name in the metadata it would be one way of tracking the original IA/BR. Is this how people are working with the Brumbaer workflow?
David
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BJNY

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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2007, 10:36:56 pm »

Ingesting/downloading the images off the card when your e22 is connected to your computer via firewire allows you to rename the files as they're imported.
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Guillermo

Murray Fredericks

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2007, 10:58:41 pm »

I don't think you should re-name the files if you are using Brumbaer. My understanding is that the file name contains important information (date and time etc) which is used by Brumbaer to order files and specifically relate black references and WSFs to the appropriate shots.

I only re-name the files once they are converted to DNGs and I am happy with the conversions.

This is a bit of a hassle (not having DNGs that relate to their original raw file) but I've learnt to live with it.

Maybe Thierry or Rainer can elaborate on this?

Cheers

Murray
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David WM

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2007, 11:03:20 pm »

I don't think that is possible with eMotion reader, only with Captureshop, in which case you lose the benefits of the Brumbaer workflow.

Quote
Ingesting/downloading the images off the card when your e22 is connected to your computer via firewire allows you to rename the files as they're imported.
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TMARK

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2007, 11:08:02 pm »

Could you describe the Sinar workflow?  I'm interested in renting a 75lv for a job but do not want have problems on the shoot.  I would want to shoot tethered with strobes if that makes any difference.

Thanks
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Murray Fredericks

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2007, 11:08:19 pm »

Also,

if i process in Brumbaer then import the DNGs to Light Room (from either the back or the CF card) the file automatically display in the order that they were shot.

I then re-name in LR.

I wonder why you files do not display in the original order after processing in Brumbaer?

Murray
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Morgan_Moore

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2007, 11:11:17 pm »

Quote
When I shoot to CF card with my e22 and have copied the files to my Mac and I end up with a bunch if IA/BR files with seemingly random file names (like 1DA56745.IA or 1DA546AE.IA).  [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162180\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I dont get the names either.

There is also a certain securtiy in seeing a nice consistent list of names that is missing here

Ie if the names look good then everything is copied from the camera/card fine

--

Just run the DNG konverter app on all the images ending with DNGs of equally bizzare names

When I browse these DNGs in silkypix the show in the order shot however which is fine

I then 'tick' the ones I need to save out to tiff

I then rename my tiffs to my normal protocol which is something like surfcomp_011207_smm001.tif

I use Bridge to rename my tiffs because it uses 'three digit' 001.tif as opossed to 1.tif (one digit) created by PhotoMechanic and then the browse order is sustained

Should I need to go back and reprocess again from the DNG the only way I could recognise the file I was 'after' is by seeing the ticked files in silkypix

Not perfect but also not problematic in general

All a bit of a mess especially with shoots what may have elements shot on other cameras


---
edit

I am very consistent with my folder naming and structure - and this helps a lot to get back original files if required

today I will create a folder 211207_smm that lives in 2007_12_SMM, inside will be folders

STI , DNG, TIFF and NEF (Nikon) and in each of theses folders will be folders named things like STI1, STI2, DNG1, DNG2 etc

By using a folder a day and including the date in the name of all delivered files I can always find the raws that any tiff (or jpg) came from pretty easily

----
TMARK - on the workflow thing IMO there can be workflow problems with sinar cameras - It is kind of a whole seperate topic but you need to look at it

I think if you go from the STIs that the camera shoots and striaght to DNG (effectively forgetting the STIs) you are fine if your preferred DNG browser can create contact sheets - my preferred DNG browser/editor Silkypix cant so I can run into trouble

My basic desired workflow is to deliver an  HTML contact sheet of 'everything but the gashers' to the client with a sensible 'look' pasted onto all and reasonably sexy file names for them, the client, to feed back to you

Not currently possible for me

Bear in mind that Sinar backs will be shooting DNGs once 'Exposure' is released - if that program is good and produced HTML contacts fast then it should be all OK

For a smooth workflow you need to be happy editing in a DNG converter that produces fast contact sheets



S
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 11:41:54 pm by Morgan_Moore »
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

TMARK

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2007, 11:55:11 pm »

Thanks.  Sounds like a pain, as I provide slightly processed contacts to clients as well and am not a Lightroom/ACR fan.  I tried running an eMotion 22 dng through the new C1 4 as it supports dng and the rendering is nice.  C1 4 crashed on every attempt. C1 4 has a nice contact sheet function, so perhaps C1 4 could be an option if it really supports dng. I'll set up a time for a demo with one of the Sinar dealers in town.

Thanks,

TM
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David WM

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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2007, 12:04:56 am »

Ah, I've just worked it out. I was transferring the files from the CF card directly to the Mac without using eMotion reader. I thought that the reader was just to get images off the internal storage. I loaded the CF card again and launched reader, and eMotion reader creates new file names that are alphabetic as it transfers them to the mac.  Stephan had already thought it through.

BJNY you were right they are renamed.

Thanks for the help.
David
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Morgan_Moore

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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2007, 12:05:17 am »

Quote
Thanks.  Sounds like a pain, as I provide slightly processed contacts to clients as well and am not a Lightroom/ACR fan.  I tried running an eMotion 22 dng through the new C1 4 as it supports dng and the rendering is nice.  C1 4 crashed on every attempt. C1 4 has a nice contact sheet function, so perhaps C1 4 could be an option if it really supports dng. I'll set up a time for a demo with one of the Sinar dealers in town.

Thanks,

TM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162206\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

ON my piss poor laptop C1Beta or whatever the current free evaluator is/was was taking 270seconds to process out a 22mp tiff  (compared to 30s with silkypix?) so I gave up on that

I need to try the latest C1

Does anyone else know a good DNG browser that is fast and simple and has -export to contact sheet that is fast ??

The tradgedy is that the 'eyelike'* software could do a contact sheet with a 'look' applied in about 30 seconds for a 3gig shoot

*eyelike was the name of sinar backs before sinar 'merged' with jenoptic

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

BJNY

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2007, 12:10:53 am »

TMARK,
I digital tech for a photographer who owns an eMotion75 LV.
Recently, we worked for 13 days tethered with strobe for hair product packaging (with models).
So, ask away if you have questions.
Billy
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Guillermo

David WM

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2007, 12:17:06 am »

Its at this link:
http://www.brumbaer.com/Tools/Brumbaer_Tools.html


Quote
Could you describe the Sinar workflow?  I'm interested in renting a 75lv for a job but do not want have problems on the shoot.  I would want to shoot tethered with strobes if that makes any difference.
Thanks
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162195\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

edit: I think you are limited to Captureshop for tethering as Brumbaer doesn't yet do tethering. I use CS for tethered shooting a fair bit and it is stable and reliable for me. Its a bit dated as Sinar have been working on new software announced at Photokina 2006 which should be launched ..."soon".
« Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 12:33:08 am by David WM »
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David WM

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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2007, 12:23:34 am »

Murray
I haven't really had a look at LIghtroom. From a raw conversion point of view I thought that it is supposed to be pretty much the same as ACR.
What do you find LR gives you ?
David

Quote
Also,

if i process in Brumbaer then import the DNGs to Light Room (from either the back or the CF card) the file automatically display in the order that they were shot.

I then re-name in LR.



Murray
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TMARK

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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2007, 12:26:50 am »

Thanks everyone for the replies.  BJ:  I'll give you a call after my vacation.  David:  Thanks for the link.  I'll check it out.  Morgan:  C1 4 is fast on a Mac Pro.  1ds2 files process out to 16 bit tiffs in a second or so, perhaps two seconds. P30 files take under 5 seconds.  It really is fast, too bad it feels unfinished.  Morgan, could you process the files to DNG, make some minor adjustments in the Sinar software, then open in Photo Mechanic and make a contact sheet from there?  Makes my head spin . . .
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Murray Fredericks

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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2007, 01:10:15 am »

Hi Morgan,

I never liked ACR -i only tried it a couple of times. I can't give you a proper evaluation therefore.

As far as i understand though, it has a similar interface but with far more features and control. For my images and subjects, the quality of the files and places I can 'push' the files to are incredible.

Everyone I have introduced to the program is now using it...


Murray
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rainer_v

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2007, 02:56:43 am »

i still dont understand the problem.
if you put the card in a cf reader and import the files with brumbaer reader all files are renamed to the date and the time when they have been shot as well as the back number in the end of the file.
071221-083521-1078.IA ( yearmonthday-hourminutesecond-backname.IA or *.BR )

the blackreferences ( *.BR) get the name as well, reflecting the date/time when it has been created by the back.
this two files ( BR+IA ) are combined than in brumbaertools to the dng file.

the names of the *,IA file are taken for the dngs by nrumbaertools.
the dngs you can rename later in every browser, ( as you can rename in captureshop its *.Sti  files,- which are also already combined *.BR and *.IA files ).

you can rename the *.IA files as well ( but why should you ? ) , but you cant NOT rename the *.BR files.

the *.BR files are identified by BrumbaerTools by their names, if this *.BR names are changed they cannot be found anymore by the tools.


Whats bad with this names? we took them because beeing bored with the cryptic names which are taken usually... so this name now have a logic which allows me  to store and to search them by the dates they have been shot.


if i make a production i rename the used dngs  in two steps:

during the working process ( when it can happen that i want to search the originals once again ). i rename the files and still hold at the end of the new name the original name, to be able to search the corresponding original dng files if i need to convert them again for some reason.
at the end of the production i rename the files to their final names.

e.g.

071127-141704-1078.IA
071127-141445-1078.BR
this two files are taken by brumbaer to make:
071127-141704-1078.dng

if i worked with this file in PS and if i send preview images to the client, i store and rename the files in the computer now  e.g. with the following name:

th01_071127-141704-1078.psd

meanwhile my client gets just the file

th01.tif

if i have in my computer one file ( e.g. a preview ) with this client name plus the original name i am alway able to search the corresponding DNG or IA files as well as the contrary,
i can search the final files by using the dng name.

everything clear?
hope not ..... uuuh my english.


now i am off in plane.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 03:24:01 am by rainer_v »
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rainer viertlböck
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Morgan_Moore

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2007, 03:21:11 am »

Quote
Hi Morgan,

I never liked ACR -i only tried it a couple of times. I can't give you a proper evaluation therefore.

As far as i understand though, it has a similar interface but with far more features and control. For my images and subjects, the quality of the files and places I can 'push' the files to are incredible.

Everyone I have introduced to the program is now using it...
Murray
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

ACR Simlar interface to what ?

What program have you introduced people to ?? ACR or another one

------

My problem with ACR is the horrible colours I get OK I know it is possible to adjust most stuff in ACR somewhere

BUT

With silky pix you slap a S curve, for punch, slide a bit of warmth in, tweak the exposure and have an attractive file for 95% of shots

And then Copy that setting and paste in on to all the others - really fast and intuitive

Similar to C1 too

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2007, 03:33:57 am »

Quote
  Morgan:  C1 4 is fast on a Mac Pro.  1ds2 files process out to 16 bit tiffs

 Morgan, could you process the files to DNG, make some minor adjustments in the Sinar software, then open in Photo Mechanic and make a contact sheet from there?

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162220\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

A mac pro is a desk machine is it ? (shows how much time I think about computers)    

I have a laptop (with a eizo in the office) I like having one computer because I cant be arsed with maintaining two sets of software etc, and that compluter needs to be mobile

(I also have a pile of PCs in the office but they wont interface iwth sinar cameras at present - I only got the mac as a 'reader' for my sinar back)

----------
Using PM for contact sheets.

I dont know - I dont use the sinar software - (too slow) but my suspicion is that the RAW adjustments wont 'travel'

Ie if you warm and curve an image in silkypix I dont think that warmth appears when you view in PM or Bridge

PM is IMO fantastic for fast contact sheet making - I use it for my nikons but then I shoot RAW and jpg and the JPGs are usually good enough for a client contact sheet

I love simple bit of lowtech interface software like PM and Mr Brums offereings

I dont keed to many bells and whistles in software (or in cameras)


SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

Morgan_Moore

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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2007, 03:47:44 am »

Quote
i still dont understand the problem.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162233\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The logic of the names is excellent BUT

I name my files

JOBTITLE_DATE_PHOTOGRAPHERnnn.extension


Eg Smith_211204_smm004.tif

Incedentally a better logic would be date first for better folder stacking)

071221_smm_smith004.tif

It would be really nice to have consistency all through and end up with

071221_smm_smith004.st1
071221_smm_smith004.dng
071221_smm_smith004.tif
071221_smm_smith004.jpg

071221_smm_smith004R1.tif
071221_smm_smith004R2.tif
(retouches 1 and 2)

Then a simple 'filename' search on a computer takes you to all the versions of the image

It is of course possible to do this at all stages beyond the STI s

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

Murray Fredericks

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Managing Brumbaer IA/BR files
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2007, 07:12:34 am »

Sorry Morgan,

I was replying to David not you...

The program I referred to was Light Room.

You use what works for you  

Murray
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