R2400: dark prints with ABW mode

[switters]

I have a 17" Apple Cinema Display that I calibrate regularly using a Gretag MacBeth i1.  I print with an Epson R2400 and color-managed workflow primarily, although I do occasionally use the ABW mode.  Running Tiger, I was very happy with the WYSIWYG results; in other words, my prints very closely matched the colors and luminance of the image onscreen.

Then I upgraded to Leopard last weekend and installed the latest v6.1.2 R2400 driver.  When printing B&W images using my normal color-managed workflow, the luminosity of the prints is a good match for what I see on screen.  However, the tone is much cooler.  

When I make that same print in ABW mode, the tone is very good but the luminosity is a few shades darker than what I see on screen.  In the ABW driver I am selecting neutral color, best photo and "dark" (that is what worked for me in Tiger).  In Lightroom and PS CS3 I use perceptual rendering intent and "managed by printer" for color management.

I know that the results for B&W photos are generally better with ABW mode, but I really prefer to do my color toning with Photoshop and Lightroom rather than the Epson driver.  For this reason I have mostly used a color-managed workflow for making B&W prints, which always worked great in Tiger.   In Leopard, however, I'm getting prints that are significantly cooler than what I see onscreen.

I'd like to know if anyone else has experienced this.  If not, what settings are you using for monitor calibration and in the Epson R2400 driver?

[switters]

After reviewing the prints further, it's clear that the color-managed B&W prints have a distinct green/blue cast to them, whereas the ABW prints do not.

[switters]

After reviewing the prints further, it's clear that the color-managed B&W prints have a distinct green/blue cast to them, whereas the ABW prints do not.
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Well, I have since figured out that the green/blue case I mentioned is due to metamerism caused by the composite grey in the color-managed B&W prints.  Turns out I was viewing the prints in a room primarily illuminated by daylight; when night rolled around and I looked at the same prints in incandescent light, the color cast was gone.

However, that still leaves the issue of ABW prints being significantly darker than what I see on my color- and luminance-calibrated Apple LCD.  Any ideas?  As mentioned, I am using the latest version of Epson driver available for Leopard - 6.1.2 from the European site.

[Geoff Wittig]

Well, I have since figured out that the green/blue case I mentioned is due to metamerism caused by the composite grey in the color-managed B&W prints.  Turns out I was viewing the prints in a room primarily illuminated by daylight; when night rolled around and I looked at the same prints in incandescent light, the color cast was gone.

However, that still leaves the issue of ABW prints being significantly darker than what I see on my color- and luminance-calibrated Apple LCD.  Any ideas?  As mentioned, I am using the latest version of Epson driver available for Leopard - 6.1.2 from the European site.
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At least for Windows, the "advanced black & white mode" defaults to the "darker" setting on its own, and I also found this yielded prints significantly darker than the monitor. I ended up settling on "dark" as about right; each increment seems to be about a half-stop darker or lighter. It's not truly color managed; more like trial and error. Once you have the right setting results are pretty good.

[switters]

At least for Windows, the "advanced black & white mode" defaults to the "darker" setting on its own, and I also found this yielded prints significantly darker than the monitor. I ended up settling on "dark" as about right; each increment seems to be about a half-stop darker or lighter. It's not truly color managed; more like trial and error. Once you have the right setting results are pretty good.
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Geoff,

On a Mac ABW also defaults to "darker".  In OS X 10.4 (Tiger), I found that "dark" was more accurate - just as you have in Windows.  However, in OS X 10.5 with the driver I'm using (6.1.2), even "normal" is too dark.  And it seems that the blacks get less saturated the lighter I go - is that your experience?

[Geoff Wittig]

Geoff,

On a Mac ABW also defaults to "darker".  In OS X 10.4 (Tiger), I found that "dark" was more accurate - just as you have in Windows.  However, in OS X 10.5 with the driver I'm using (6.1.2), even "normal" is too dark.  And it seems that the blacks get less saturated the lighter I go - is that your experience?
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Hmm. At least with the Windows driver, the darker/dark/normal settings seem to be a simple "gamma" adjustment, so the shadows stayed reasonably dark. I'm mostly going from memory, as I'm not using the 2400 for black & white much anymore. Others on the Mac side may be able to help you more here.

[Ken Bennett]

IIRC shouldn't you select No Color Management, rather than Managed by Printer, when using ABW? I'm not sitting in front of my workstation at home, so I can't recall my exact settings, but I think that's right.

Also, for my purposes, I get very nice results when setting ABW to "Light", which is the brightest setting. This works for any of the toned versions, too. I realize that's "wrong" but it works for me.

[switters]

IIRC shouldn't you select No Color Management, rather than Managed by Printer, when using ABW? I'm not sitting in front of my workstation at home, so I can't recall my exact settings, but I think that's right.

Also, for my purposes, I get very nice results when setting ABW to "Light", which is the brightest setting. This works for any of the toned versions, too. I realize that's "wrong" but it works for me.
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Well, that's good to know.  I guess I've just been assuming that something is wrong since everyone else talks about using "darkest" to get the best results.  I'll try "light" and see how it comes out.

[booksmartstudio]

We get much better results on all of our printers by making a custom profile and printing with full color rather than using the abw mode.  The profiles we make are very accurate.  Give me a call if you need.  1.800.761.6623