Proof setup problem

[cocasana]

Hi there!
My question:
I've fiddled with PS. I'm very happy of the result. All colors are in gamut (no problem here, I would know how to kick them back). View->Custom proof setup. I choose the right printer and paper and the best Rendering intent for that photo. Sometimes things work well, other not that well. For example when small color shift in medium/dark areas occur. The worst is when all details melt together. Here's the point. I fiddle a lot, but I'm not satisfied with the results. Any work flow suggestion? Thank you very much, Carlo

[walter.sk]

Hi there!
My question:
... View->Custom proof setup. I choose the right printer and paper and the best Rendering intent for that photo....The worst is when all details melt together. Here's the point.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160319\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It is not clear to me if your "details melting together" appears on the soft proof preview, or on the print alone.  If you lose detail especially in the shadow areas, the problem could be 1) from a less than optimum paper profile, or 2) from using a paper with less capability in the shadow areas.

[cocasana]

It is not clear to me if your "details melting together" appears on the soft proof preview, or on the print alone.  If you lose detail especially in the shadow areas, the problem could be 1) from a less than optimum paper profile, or 2) from using a paper with less capability in the shadow areas.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160324\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Walter,
it appears on both: on soft proof and on the consequent printing. Paper was a brand Hahnemuehle and the driver was its own one!

[digitaldog]

Hi Walter,
it appears on both: on soft proof and on the consequent printing. Paper was a brand Hahnemuehle and the driver was its own one!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160332\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sounds like the output profile is the issue here.

There are two tables in such profiles, one affects the soft proof, the other the output. They are independent of each other but in a prefect world, they match. One or both tables could be the issue (some would suggest editing the tables with fancy software, sometimes that's the only fix). Where did the profile come from? That the two tables here agree, is actually a good thing, maybe you need to profile slightly different printer driver settings to get better linearity.

[cocasana]

Sounds like the output profile is the issue here.

There are two tables in such profiles, one affects the soft proof, the other the output. They are independent of each other but in a prefect world, they match. One or both tables could be the issue (some would suggest editing the tables with fancy software, sometimes that's the only fix). Where did the profile come from? That the two tables here agree, is actually a good thing, maybe you need to profile slightly different printer driver settings to get better linearity.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160340\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Andy
thanks for your very quick reply!
Actually soft proof and print match perfectly. Profiles came from Hanhemuhle's web site. Paper was Hanhemulhle's Museum Etching. Printer Epson 3800.
How should I "profile slightly different printer driver settings to get better linearity"?

[duraace]

Hi Andy
thanks for your very quick reply!
Actually soft proof and print match perfectly. Profiles came from Hanhemuhle's web site. Paper was Hanhemulhle's Museum Etching. Printer Epson 3800.
How should I "profile slightly different printer driver settings to get better linearity"?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160415\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm having a similar issue under Lightroom with 3rd party profiles on the 3800.  Could you please let me know if your soft proof looks the same as your edited screen image specifying an Epson paper profile that shipped with the os?  When I choose an Epson profile, it's a perfect match to my edited screen image.

[digitaldog]

How should I "profile slightly different printer driver settings to get better linearity"?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160415\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You could use color controls, but the overall color gamut will be reduced.

[Geoff Wittig]

1) If no colors are out of gamut, then rendering intent won't really matter very much since no compression is involved. Either perceptual or relative colorimetric should be almost identical

2) Hahnemuhle's profiles on their website vary widely in quality, but in general they aren't very good. I have noticed them to step on shadow detail on several papers. Oddly enough, the profile for Hahnemuhle photo rag on my Epson 7600 was apparently updated and replaced on the website about 18 months ago, and the newer profile was much worse. Go figure. If you're using a paper you're really attached to, it's worth having a custom profile made.

[digitaldog]

1) If no colors are out of gamut, then rendering intent won't really matter very much since no compression is involved. Either perceptual or relative colorimetric should be almost identical

With Perceptual intents, in and out of gamut colors are getting affected.

All profile creators build a perceptual mapping differently. That alone can make a pretty big visual difference.

[cocasana]

I'm having a similar issue under Lightroom with 3rd party profiles on the 3800.  Could you please let me know if your soft proof looks the same as your edited screen image specifying an Epson paper profile that shipped with the os?  When I choose an Epson profile, it's a perfect match to my edited screen image.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164070\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi duraace, exactly the same here!!!

[Tim Gray]

With Perceptual intents, in and out of gamut colors are getting affected.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164083\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In gamut is affected IF there is something out of gamut?  If the image is 100% in gamut then regardless of intent nothing will change.  Is that correct?