Scratch on Harman Gloss FB AI on 3800

[ThomasPoeschmann]

The past days I made quite a few (~200) prints with an Epson 3800 on Harman Gloss FB AI size A4 (8"x11,5") using the read feed and 2880 dpi unidirectional with no problems at all. I was using paper size 4 (mm) and platen gap "widest". Today I printed 30 pages A3+ (13"x17") with the same settings successfully before something was going wrong. The printer was making a different noise than usually. It wasn't a head crash an there were also no signs of an head crash. However after inspecting the print I saw a large and deep solid scratch running in parallel to the long side of the paper (i.e. NOT in parallel to the print head movement). It was about 10 cm (4") away from the paper edge and about 10-12 cm (4") long. No, it's not a pizza wheel mark, I know how they look...
I first thought it would be a problem related to paper manufacturing, so I inspected the next page closely before printing and set the paper size to "5" (mm). The scratch came out again, it was a little bit shorter however. So I printed again a third time using a different image, but it also had a very small scratch.

In preperation of opening a support case for the 38000 I printed the same image using A3+ (13"x17") Epson PGPP using the default settings (paper size "3", plate gap Auto) and both using the single sheet feed and the rear feed (er, one after another I mean). No problems! So I though that something was sitting in my paper path and it would be gone, but the next Harman page, this time using the single sheet feed, came out scratched again.

I finally printed the image with 1440 dpi and bidi, with no (!) scratches at all *sigh*

Any ideas? May this be related to paper curling inside the printer? The prints come out curled, a little bit, but this might be a problem... The blank sheets are very plain and do not show any curling at all, but it seems when ink hits the page they curl and this might cause them to get scratched.

All other settings I use for printings are normal: WinXP SP 2, Epson Driver 5.51, CS2, 2880 dpi, unidirectional print, in "paper config" all set to 0 except paper size "4" or "5" (mm) and platen gap "widest", paper is chosen as Epson PGPP.

If you have any idea please let me know. Is there any instruction to open the device and clean it without using warranty?

Thanks,

Thomas

[ThomasPoeschmann]

Ok, a few prints later done with 2880 dpi both using bidirectional and unidirectional printing there are no scratches at all *phew*. There was also an image that is 95% dark (black, blue) so this will definetly cause an heavy ink laydown, and it came out without scratches at all.

I think the problem might be related to heat. The printer is right next to a heater. I turned the heater off and opened the window a little bit. I can image that the high room temperature causes problems as the ink dries "too fast" and so the paper curls extremly. Normally I give my prints 24h to dry...

I am wondering what will happen in summer, temperatures of 35° C (95° F) are normal my office then. Seems during summer there will be no Harman printing for me.

[kjellhar]

Hi Thomas, what happened to your problem.

Yesterday I experienced the same issue. The scratch is exactly the way you describe it,. The weather has turned warmer and more moist lately.

The scratch starts approx 3-5cm from the top of the paper, and goes on for 10-15cm. I'm thinking it happens when the paper comes through long enough so the end "blopps" down. This may bend the paper suddenly and push it into some edge in the printer. The scratch fades away slowly down the page, and that may be when the top of the paper reaches the pick up tray, and the pressure is relieved.

[sanjja]

Hi Thomas.  Okay, I know this is a long shot, but when I changed my Epson 9800 from matte to photoblack, and started printing from a 24 inch roll of Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk, I noticed a similar problem.  The scratches were perpendicular to the movement of the roller and usually in the same place.  It was driving me crazy until I finally realized that I wasn't carefully taking the paper from the machine.  Unlike my matte paper, the Gold Fibre is extremely fragile, hence will scratch if anything touches it, particularly in the first 24 hours.  In one section of my 9800 there is a "lip" that protrudes out.  The paper was hitting it.  I've finally learned to avoid it.  Again, this may be a longshot, but given my experience, I'm passing it along.  Good luck --

[kjellhar]

I did some experiments, and it seems like one of the pizza wheel rollers are slipping in the wet ink, causing a scratch instead of the faint pizza wheel marks.
For me, this started when the summer heat came. It didn't raise the indoor temperature much, but it sure raised the relative humidity, which probably will slow down the ink drying.

I have tried to increase the drying time between head passes, and it does have an effect.

[ThomasPoeschmann]

Thanks to all for the feedback. There are no news from my side. I have to admit that for the past month I was too busy doing photographs and if I ever made some I just printed them on tiny previews. I also changed my display on so fought with some calibration stuff rather than being productive... Still Harman is for me the way to go, and it would be a pity ruining every Nth print, even when looking at the expensive sheet price.

Anyway, for the paper handling I can only say that I never touch the printable area and use cotton gloves to be extra sure. I will pay an extra attention to this topic anyhow from now on. I will also set the drying time to higher values as soon as the problem comes up again.

I set an email notification on this topic so I will keep up to date.

[kjellhar]

I will look more into it as well. The extra drying time helped, but it is not solved. I did get scratches with 5sec drying between passes.

[AaronPhotog]

Thomas,

I posted my solution to this problem in another thread, and it met with success for the user.  I had previously experienced the exact problem that you describe with my 3800 and the large 17" wide sheets of Harman Gloss Al, until I discovered this method by simply experimenting.

1. Do not use the rear feed.
2. Use the sheet feeder, one sheet at a time, but after placing the sheet in the feeder, hit the advance button.  That will draw in the sheet to the printing position and stop.  The sheet will now take on that nice gentle curve as you complete your printing instructions to the driver.
3. Go ahead and print, using thickness 4 and head setting "wide."

Don't worry about the temperature.  I live in Hawaii, and this works even when my thermometer is over 85 F.  I've tried it with a volcano shot that has a lot of black in it.  It works.

If your printer is like mine, there should be no scratches after following this procedure.

Let us know if this works for you.

Aloha,
Aaron

[ThomasPoeschmann]

AaronPhotog, thanks for your tips, even if some time has passed since then. I made a few prints today and everything worked fine.

[AaronPhotog]

AaronPhotog, thanks for your tips, even if some time has passed since then. I made a few prints today and everything worked fine.
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Thomas,

I'm pleased that it worked out for you.  Recently, I had to do sixty 14"x20" prints in black and white on 17"x25" Harman FB Gloss Al with my Epson 3800 (my "great printer from Hell"), and I adopted some modifications to my previously posted practices to completely avoid scratches:

1. If the paper is slightly curled upwards at the sides, and especially if it bends slightly backward in the middle lengthwise, gently bend the sheet over each way on a clean flat surface to take out most of the curl, being careful not to dent or "crinkle" the paper.

2. When you first load the sheet into the sheet feeder (again, only one sheet at a time), make sure it is more or less straight across and the leading edge is toward the back of the feeder at the bottom.  I use a flat ruler to kind of coax it into place, sometimes readjusting the left guide a little to keep the leading edge from walking forward.  Then, hit the advance button as in the previous post.

3. Take your time and check all your settings before hitting "print."  Not that you need to check them, but it gives the paper a chance to relax in the feeder.

4. When the paper has started to come out of the printing area, reach in underneith the middle of the front of the printer, and support the paper gently on your fingertips letting the paper slide outward smoothly and level.  Move your hand out as necessary to keep the paper just lightly supported and level until it is out about 3 to 4 inches beyond the face of the printer, and then gently lower the leading edge onto the tray.  

The paper catching tray could probably be fitted with a simple ramp that would do the same thing (my next project).  In short, the paper catching tray, as built, is too low to prevent the paper from buckling inside the machine.  If the paper droops down to the tray too soon after exiting the printing area, that drooping will cause the paper to take on an "M" shape inside the machine, resulting in scratches up to a few inches long on one or both sides of center in the direction of travel.  

By making these slight added changes, I was able to do the final 40 or so prints in a row without any scratches at all, but I had some frustrating intermittent failures before that.  

Aloha,
Aaron

[JohnBrew]

AaronPhotog, thanks for your tips, even if some time has passed since then. I made a few prints today and everything worked fine.
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Thomas, I've been printing with the Harman exclusively since it came out and I have noticed the paper is very susceptible to scratching. The slightest rubbing of the paper against almost anything else can produce scratches. I find I must be inordinately careful with this paper before framing. Bit of a pita, really.

[neil snape]

It definitely is prone to scratches. It also tends to curl on the edges, as does Innova from my experience.

I think you're seeing a head strike but can't be sure.

The only Baryta I've tried that has 0 curl problem, and is quite scratch resistant is the Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Baryta for which I wrote a review which is on my site. You should be able to get a sample pack soon and try it. Less shiny than the Harman, but less plastic feeling, and cotton base, no OBA.

[AaronPhotog]

It definitely is prone to scratches. It also tends to curl on the edges, as does Innova from my experience.

I think you're seeing a head strike but can't be sure.

The only Baryta I've tried that has 0 curl problem, and is quite scratch resistant is the Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Baryta for which I wrote a review which is on my site. You should be able to get a sample pack soon and try it. Less shiny than the Harman, but less plastic feeling, and cotton base, no OBA.
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Neil,

As a result of your post and review, I have a pack of the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta on order for testing when it becomes available.  So far, now, with my procedures above, I get no scratches at all, though, with the Harman, which I like a lot, except for the flimsy packaging (almost guaranteed bent corners in transit).  

Hahnemuhle's boxes are much more likely to survive the trip, and that may be a strong deciding factor if the paper performs well in terms of inking and has a suitable surface and color.  I will still follow my above methods for large sheets.  

The scratches I was getting at first were definitely not head strikes.  That would have been in the opposite direction, and would have been messy.  The ones I was getting were in line with parts of the transport mechanism, guides, or star wheels, but were not star wheel marks.  I had those at first, too, very faintly, but they gradually stopped as I ran more paper through the machine, which I assume polished the star wheels and got them a little less "knife sharp."  The lines I got were parallel to the direction of travel, and consisted typically of two parallel lines about an eighth of an inch apart.  There were typically two sets of those.  All I can say is "bad design."

Aloha,
Aaron