Digital large format copy solution

[Tim Keefe]

I am in the process of determining a camera large format /digital back solution for the digitization of books and very old manuscripts. This system will be primarily copy-stand based and will utilize camera swings and tilts, but little shifting.

I am interested learning about any configuration combinations that have proven successful or unsuccessful and any lessons learned in the setup of a similar system. I am envisioning a 30-39MP system utilizing a 6x9 view camera, digital specific lenses with an electronic shutter system. The current imaging lab is Macintosh based and color managed.

Its been a while since I have worked in this space, but I do remember many of the difficulties I had setting up medium format camera /digital back combinations...I was working in imaging science on the kodak professional digital camera development teams in the DCS proback days...  

I will very much appreciate any advice that will ease my transition back into this technology space

[ynp]

I tried to use a Rollei Xact 2 with a Makro 90mm lens and a Phase One db20 some time ago. I mounted the camera on my copying stand in the vertical position. (I was trying to get two overlapping images and used camera movements).I found the system (the camera and lens) not rigid enough for critical focusing on the vertical stand. Even when I put a lighter digitar   on the camera it was still not stable on the rail in the vertical position . Perhaps a more solidly built view camera will be better for this application.  And the Live View will be helpful.
Yevgeny

[snickgrr]

Recently at an art opening here in San Francisco, I met Brewster Kahle.  He's the director and founder of organization dedicated to in his words "to digitally archive everything".  I'm taking literary license here with that quote but he's doing what you're asking.  He uses two Canons mounted on a stand to take a photo of each page.  He said the shutters go fairly quickly on these cameras and I thought he was making it up but when he explained that he's taken millions of photos of then I understood.  You could email him to ask particulars because he's gotten the system down to a science now.

http://www.archive.org/about/bios.php

[j.miller]

A smaller view camera will offer some ideal lens options, however they will also introduce limitations to critical focus control. Even today's 6x9 view cameras (Plaubel, Arca-Swiss, Linhof, Rollei) have a difficult time holding exact, precise focus across large, flat art work.

You might consider a medium format SLR solution with an appropriate digital back. Unless you require specific lens movements, an SLR will guarantee precise focus and sharpness across the frame. You mention "This system ... will utilize camera swings and tilts, but little shifting...", exactly how much movement is needed?

We have a significant world-wide client base of museums, galleries, art publishers, collectors, and print houses that use numerous digital systems (which we configured) with tremendous success.

What size(s) of work do you anticipate?

Have you considered Multi-Shot technology?

Regards,

Jordan Miller

I am in the process of determining a camera large format /digital back solution for the digitization of books and very old manuscripts. This system will be primarily copy-stand based and will utilize camera swings and tilts, but little shifting.

I am interested learning about any configuration combinations that have proven successful or unsuccessful and any lessons learned in the setup of a similar system. I am envisioning a 30-39MP system utilizing a 6x9 view camera, digital specific lenses with an electronic shutter system. The current imaging lab is Macintosh based and color managed.

Its been a while since I have worked in this space, but I do remember many of the difficulties I had setting up medium format camera /digital back combinations...I was working in imaging science on the kodak professional digital camera development teams in the DCS proback days... 

I will very much appreciate any advice that will ease my transition back into this technology space
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158975\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

hi Tim,

I would obviously suggest you the multishot technology in this case, when reproducing such documents either with the SB 54 H 22 MPx or the SB eVolution 75 H 33 Mpx back. We have many customers using the Sinar p3 either with digital CMV lenses (Central Magnetic Shutter) semi-automatically controlled from the software. The other possible configuration is to us the Sinar m on the p3 together with CAB lenses which will them allow to control the lenses directly either with the Sinar m or in the capture SW. Both solutions do provide vibration-free configuration, necessary for this multishot configuration on a stand.

Do not hesitate to ask me if you need more information.

Best regards,
Thierry

I am in the process of determining a camera large format /digital back solution for the digitization of books and very old manuscripts. This system will be primarily copy-stand based and will utilize camera swings and tilts, but little shifting.

I am interested learning about any configuration combinations that have proven successful or unsuccessful and any lessons learned in the setup of a similar system. I am envisioning a 30-39MP system utilizing a 6x9 view camera, digital specific lenses with an electronic shutter system. The current imaging lab is Macintosh based and color managed.

Its been a while since I have worked in this space, but I do remember many of the difficulties I had setting up medium format camera /digital back combinations...I was working in imaging science on the kodak professional digital camera development teams in the DCS proback days... 

I will very much appreciate any advice that will ease my transition back into this technology space
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158975\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[BobDavid]

I'm having terrific results using a CF39-MS, Schneider lenses w/electronic shutters, mounted on a Horseman LE 54.

[Tim Keefe]

I would love to use a MF solution, it would make the system much less expensive and complex. Unfortunately I  have the need to control the plane of critical focus. many of the ancient manuscripts have binding, materials, and condition issues that severely limit my ability to open or manipulate the objects in ways that would be conducive to good photography. There are some exotic systems that try to address this situation through some wildly complex and wildly expensive camera fixtures.  I am of the opinion that swing and tilt functions the LF solution, with proper book cradling, will allow me to address a majority of these issues without the added cost and complexity of one of these custom solutions.

A smaller view camera will offer some ideal lens options, however they will also introduce limitations to critical focus control. Even today's 6x9 view cameras (Plaubel, Arca-Swiss, Linhof, Rollei) have a difficult time holding exact, precise focus across large, flat art work.

You might consider a medium format SLR solution with an appropriate digital back. Unless you require specific lens movements, an SLR will guarantee precise focus and sharpness across the frame. You mention "This system ... will utilize camera swings and tilts, but little shifting...", exactly how much movement is needed?

We have a significant world-wide client base of museums, galleries, art publishers, collectors, and print houses that use numerous digital systems (which we configured) with tremendous success.

What size(s) of work do you anticipate?

Have you considered Multi-Shot technology?

Regards,

Jordan
DTG
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159137\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[ynp]

I had a friend shooting at my place today. He was using a Live View Hasselblad back on his (rented) Sinar P3. We mounted the Sinar on my Foba copying stand in the vertical position to test. We used all possble camera movements and now I am sure that (1) it is doable (2)the Sinar p3 and other similar cameras were not designed to be usesd in the vertical position (3) it is the right time for Sinar or other manufacturers to introduce a true digital view camera without exessed standard movements and parts inherited from 4x5 and 8x10 days. Something like a Sinar M crossed with Fuji SLR with Sinaron electronic lenses...
Yevgeny

[BJNY]

Yegevny,
Sounds like an Alpa with Rollei 90mm Apo-Symmar might be the solution.
Billy

[ynp]

Yegevny,
Sounds like an Alpa with Rollei 90mm Apo-Symmar might be the solution.
Billy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160166\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think that the ALPA is a very good copying rig, I use it on the regular basis. I have upgraded to Sinar M AF; IMO it is the best. We made the swing and tilt testb on the copying stand because the OP was interested in camera movements without shifts.
Yevgeny

[Ed Jack]

I think that the ALPA is a very good copying rig, I use it on the regular basis. I have upgraded to Sinar M AF; IMO it is the best. We made the swing and tilt testb on the copying stand because the OP was interested in camera movements without shifts.
Yevgeny
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160187\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

 Hold on a minute... surely the best thing to use is a Betterlight scanning back. You can use the LF kit you are used to, as the scanning back inserts just like a film back. Even the "cheap" 4000 serries has more resolution than a MF back and it is "true colour" (tri-linear colour chip). The 6K and 8K backs are even bigger and there is a new 10K back which is equivalent to over 416MP, is that enough detail for you    They are alot more afordable than MFDB's.

Also Mike Collete (MD) is one cool customer and the service is about as good as it gets. You can find them used for a reasonable price. The 6K-HS back is generally considered big enough for most people and is a good compromise in terms of capture speed compromise.

Ed

[ynp]

Ed,
 You are right, a scanning back will get you all the movements the OP wanted.
I have a day work and cannot shoot and wait minutes for a prescan and the final scan. Last week I shot a 400 prints collection of 18 century woodblock Japanese prints for 3,5 hours with my Sinar M and the AF Module. 10 seconds per print. And the terms of the Insurance Policy won't allow any hot lights, only strobes with UVprotective domes. And the 54H is true colour as well. I know some museum people here in Russia. Some  still use scanning backs. The Sinar multishot is pretty much standard among the majority, mostly SB 44 and 54H optic cable.
Yevgeny

Hold on a minute... surely the best thing to use is a Betterlight scanning back.     They are alot more afordable than MFDB's.
compromise.

Ed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160193\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[ynp]

I had a friend shooting at my place today. He was using a Live View Hasselblad back on his (rented) Sinar P3. We mounted the Sinar on my Foba copying stand in the vertical position to test. We used all possble camera movements and now I am sure that (1) it is doable (2)the Sinar p3 and other similar cameras were not designed to be usesd in the vertical position (3) it is the right time for Sinar or other manufacturers to introduce a true digital view camera without exessed standard movements and parts inherited from 4x5 and 8x10 days. Something like a Sinar M crossed with Fuji SLR with Sinaron electronic lenses...
Yevgeny
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160157\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dear all,
I  checked the gear mechanism on the rental camera we used. It looks and feels the same as my friend's p2 bearers. We contacted the owner and he said that it was a special model developed and sold by SinarBron, allegedly they combined the top from p3 and the bottom from p2 and they were selling the model as a USA only product. I cannot know the truth. I tried the p3 yesterday, properly aligned  and brand new, at the dealers and the p3 behaved much better.
Yevgeny