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Author Topic: P30+ on a CAMBO WDS  (Read 6458 times)

stevecoleccs

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P30+ on a CAMBO WDS
« on: December 06, 2007, 03:49:06 pm »

Shooting on a CAMBO WDS & a P30+ - does anyone have any experience with this setup?

How about on a view camera?


Can I do minor shifts & tilts or none at all? Help!
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EgillBjarki

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P30+ on a CAMBO WDS
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2007, 04:58:35 pm »

Quote
Shooting on a CAMBO WDS & a P30+ - does anyone have any experience with this setup?

How about on a view camera?
Can I do minor shifts & tilts or none at all? Help!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158775\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, I have heard bad things happen... Never seen how it looks? Could be intresting if some one had samples?
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Dave Gallagher

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P30+ on a CAMBO WDS
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2007, 05:44:20 pm »

Quote
Shooting on a CAMBO WDS & a P30+ - does anyone have any experience with this setup?

How about on a view camera?
Can I do minor shifts & tilts or none at all? Help!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158775\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Because of the proximity of the lens and the focal plane (CCD), the P30 works on the Wide DS with a 47mm lens but nothing wider.  If you go wider than a 47mm, an LCC can not correct the diffraction caused by the wide angle lenses and the micro lens combination.  

We have done these tests ourselves.

Interestingly enough, the new 28mm on the Mamiya AFDII has no LCC issues whatsoever.  It doesn't even require one.  The length of lens barrel is surprisingly long for such a wide angle lens.
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Sincerely,
 Dave Gallagher President Capt

Larry_Menzin

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P30+ on a CAMBO WDS
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2007, 08:56:38 pm »

Dave,

A lot of these short lenses are actually retrofocus designs. That's why you are seeing the longer barrel. I'm shooting with a Rodenstock 35mm HR and that is a retrofocus design as well. No center filter is required and the flange focal distance is much higher that that for the regular Rodenstock 35mm digital.

Larry





Quote
Because of the proximity of the lens and the focal plane (CCD), the P30 works on the Wide DS with a 47mm lens but nothing wider.  If you go wider than a 47mm, an LCC can not correct the diffraction caused by the wide angle lenses and the micro lens combination. 

We have done these tests ourselves.

Interestingly enough, the new 28mm on the Mamiya AFDII has no LCC issues whatsoever.  It doesn't even require one.  The length of lens barrel is surprisingly long for such a wide angle lens.
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Dave Gallagher

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P30+ on a CAMBO WDS
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2007, 10:44:50 pm »

Quote
Dave,

A lot of these short lenses are actually retrofocus designs. That's why you are seeing the longer barrel. I'm shooting with a Rodenstock 35mm HR and that is a retrofocus design as well. No center filter is required and the flange focal distance is much higher that that for the regular Rodenstock 35mm digital.

Larry
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Larry,

All of our lenses are the standard Schneider Digitars and are in a helical focus mount.

Have you shot a P30 with a 35mm Rod HR and had good results?
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Sincerely,
 Dave Gallagher President Capt

Don Libby

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P30+ on a CAMBO WDS
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2007, 11:00:36 pm »

I just very recently took delivery of the 28mm lens and was very surprised at the size.  The 28 is almost the same length as the 210 and much wider at the front.  Great lens!

don

Steve Stayton

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P30+ on a CAMBO WDS
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2007, 12:42:00 am »

Quote
Dave,

A lot of these short lenses are actually retrofocus designs. That's why you are seeing the longer barrel. I'm shooting with a Rodenstock 35mm HR and that is a retrofocus design as well. No center filter is required and the flange focal distance is much higher that that for the regular Rodenstock 35mm digital.

Larry
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Strictly speaking, it is a mistake to call the Rodenstock 35mm HR lens a “retrofocus design” although I can understand the confusion on this issue as some older Rodenstock sales literature makes this mistake in describing this very lens. Newer literature from Rodenstock does not make the mistake. (In my experience, German optical guys may not like to admit mistakes but they are quick to correct them!)

A retrofocus lens design, also known as a reversed telephoto design, is commonly defined by optical engineers as a lens that has a back focal length that is longer than the effective focal length. The back focal length  (BFL) is the distance from the rear lens surface to the infinity focus image plane. Retrofocus designs are commonly used when a large clearance from lens to image sensor is required relative to the focal length. In other words: wide angle lenses on reflex cameras to provide necessary mirror clearance. Like the 28mm Mamiya with 63.3mm needed for bayonet mount flange to sensor and something only slightly less needed for mirror clearance.

Rodenstock literature for the 35mm HR shows that the lens housing to infinity image distance is 23.8mm which is considerably less than the 35mm effective focal length. Lens housing to image is not much different than the lens surface to image distance for this lens (strict definition of BFL).

All the Rodenstock Digital HR lenses I have seen data on are not retrofocus designs. However the Rodenstock designers have designed the lenses to reduce the angle of rays hitting the sensor at the edge of the field for the purpose of reducing sensor lens cast correction (LCC) problems and to reduce vignetting. See the Rodenstock lens diagram attached for the 35HR vs the much older design 35mm Apo-Grandagon (designed for film). The imaging ray angle at the edge of the field is reduced by optimizing the lens design to put the exit pupil of the lens as far as possible from the image plane. Rodenstock or Schneider do not provide specific locations of the exit pupils for their lenses unfortunately or it would possible to compare image ray angles at the edge of the field.

Of the Schneider Digitar lens series the only one that appears to be a true retrofocus design is the Digitar 28mm L. It has 49.3mm distance from rear of the lens cell to sensor which is much greater than the 28mm focal length.

Steve
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Larry_Menzin

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P30+ on a CAMBO WDS
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2007, 05:22:15 pm »

Dave,

I'm shooting the 35mm HR with a P20 (that I bought from you). Results are excellent. LCC is not really needed unless shifts are 8mm or more. I know that my P20 doesn't have microlenses, but this lens design is exceptional. The digitars are not in the same class, in my opinion.

Larry


Quote
Larry,

All of our lenses are the standard Schneider Digitars and are in a helical focus mount.

Have you shot a P30 with a 35mm Rod HR and had good results?
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j.miller

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P30+ on a CAMBO WDS
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2007, 07:11:35 pm »

Larry,
     I would have to agree with your assessment on the Rodenstocks. Having recently used the new Rodenstock Apo-Sironar Digital HR 28 mm f/4.5 on an my Alpa 12TC (along with my 35mm & 60mm HR), I am quite impressed.

For us, the Apo-Sironar Digital / Digital HR line is becoming increasingly more popular over Digitars. They are extremly sharp, exhibit zero chromatic aberation, have and rarely require the use of centers filters. Most of the Rodenstock Digital line have modest image circles, with slightly longer flange focal lengths in comparison to certain Digitars.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Quote
Dave,

I'm shooting the 35mm HR with a P20 (that I bought from you). Results are excellent. LCC is not really needed unless shifts are 8mm or more. I know that my P20 doesn't have microlenses, but this lens design is exceptional. The digitars are not in the same class, in my opinion.

Larry
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« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 11:09:39 am by j.miller »
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