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Author Topic: z3100 current status of roller marks?  (Read 78469 times)

Colorwave

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #140 on: February 26, 2008, 04:57:16 pm »

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So for anyone who may need it, here is the part # for the tan pinch rollers:

P/N Q5669-67060

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Any chance that I could get the part number for the new starwheel design from you as well?
Thanks,
Ron H.
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Hellstan

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #141 on: February 26, 2008, 04:59:41 pm »

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I've gotten my Z3100 fitted with the new star wheels as well as the the new "tan" pinch rollers and the pinch wheel marks are completely gone on the Harman FB AI Gloss.

Thanks to all the info on this thread I was able to get it all done with only one annoying menu/tech support call. After that it was helpful to have Ben wolf's contact info because that bypassed any additional calls.  He was great to deal with and very helpful, as was the tech who did the update to the printer. 

Interestingly, my tech did his homework and knew about the tan wheels before he came, but he was unable to get a parts number to order them as of Friday of last week. When he came for the service yesterday, he then called HP to confirm that he was still able to see pinch roller marks after a test print and at that point they sent the parts directly to me.

So for anyone who may need it, here is the part # for the tan pinch rollers:

P/N Q5669-67060

Also for anyone who's interested in the paper settings I used for the profile:

It took 3 tries to get the correct paper setting. The first was "fine art pearl-less ink" which printed ok but I felt like I wanted to put more ink on the paper for better dmax. The 2nd setting I tried was "Glossy" at default paper thickness which made noticeably darker blacks but caused head strikes. The 3rd was the "Glossy" setting with paper set to "thick". This is the one...the blacks look great and no sign of head strikes. I also take the extra precaution to make sure the paper is wound on the roll w/no slack before printing. I'm lazy about that with other paper because I've never had head strikes with anything else.

This paper is beautiful on the Z3100 and I'd encourage anyone who wants to use it to go ahead with the star wheel/pinch roller update.

DLS
www.imagesbydom.com
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Obviously HP support in the US or UK is far better than here in Belgium.
Since two weeks now I'm waiting for a non-existent reply from HP, with a
case reference and numerous emails sent to them.
Gross uncompetence
or worst — lack of goodwill and total despise of a customer. For years
I dealt  with companies not known for their customer friendliness
like Microsoft, but I never ever had such a bad experience.

DLS

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #142 on: February 26, 2008, 05:22:10 pm »

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Any chance that I could get the part number for the new starwheel design from you as well?
Thanks,
Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177568\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


"P/N Q5669-67061
Starwheel With Actuator 24 Sv"

The name on the pinch roller kit is:
"Rubber Pinch Wheel Kit Sv"

Jim Cole

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #143 on: February 26, 2008, 05:32:26 pm »

DLS,

I've had the updates for a couple of weeks now but still have roller mark issues with the Harman Gloss FB. Since the update I have only tried profiling with the "fine art pearl - less ink" preset and not the Glossy setting that you were finally happy with.

Curious to know if you had success (no roller marks) with the fine art pearl setting and just didn't like the ink laydown. Everyone else so far has declared victory on an initial print on the Harman, only to go back, look closely and find roller marks that they missed on the first inspection.

If you got a clean print with this preset, then I wonder what the difference is.

Are you using Gloss Enhancer?

Thanks,
Jim
www.jimcolephoto.com



Quote
Also for anyone who's interested in the paper settings I used for the profile:

It took 3 tries to get the correct paper setting. The first was "fine art pearl-less ink" which printed ok but I felt like I wanted to put more ink on the paper for better dmax. The 2nd setting I tried was "Glossy" at default paper thickness which made noticeably darker blacks but caused head strikes. The 3rd was the "Glossy" setting with paper set to "thick". This is the one...the blacks look great and no sign of head strikes. I also take the extra precaution to make sure the paper is wound on the roll w/no slack before printing. I'm lazy about that with other paper because I've never had head strikes with anything else.
DLS
www.imagesbydom.com
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kaelaria

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #144 on: February 26, 2008, 05:40:11 pm »

Just for further information, that is the part number for just the rollers.  There is an updated one (I don't have it anymore, threw out the paper I wrote it down on) that also includes the new alignment tool.

I had the part number you stated shipped to me - my tech had the new one shipped to him and brought it.

I wonder if it was just a limited test, since I'm the only one that seems to have the new version so far?
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DLS

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #145 on: February 26, 2008, 06:14:14 pm »

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DLS,

I've had the updates for a couple of weeks now but still have roller mark issues with the Harman Gloss FB. Since the update I have only tried profiling with the "fine art pearl - less ink" preset and not the Glossy setting that you were finally happy with.

Curious to know if you had success (no roller marks) with the fine art pearl setting and just didn't like the ink laydown. Everyone else so far has declared victory on an initial print on the Harman, only to go back, look closely and find roller marks that they missed on the first inspection.

If you got a clean print with this preset, then I wonder what the difference is.

Are you using Gloss Enhancer?

Thanks,
Jim
www.jimcolephoto.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177578\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well I can't really say because I did all the profiling before the starwheel/pinchwheel replacement. I had pinch roller marks even with the FAP-less ink setting before the fix but they were really faint and you had to be looking for them to see them and even then it wasn't easy to see. I could see it, but not everyone could.

There was one print in particular though, that they really showed up on in an obvious way. Like 1/2 wide lines running through the print. It was printed with the glossy/thick profile. That's the file that I did the test print with after the update. I can say 100% for sure there is absolutely no sign of pinch wheel marks on it. It's the only print I've done so far because the repair was just finished today so I guess time will tell on other prints, but this had been my worst case so far.

I think taking up the slack on the spool may be a factor as well, because it makes the straightest possible path that way and this paper has a sensitive surface.

The ink settings:

FAP(less ink) has ink limiting set at 32.
For "Photo Gloss Paper" it's set to 36.
The "more ink" settings for both papers is 46.

I guess "Photo Gloss" standard sits in just the right place for this paper. Just don't forget to set the paper to "thick" because it swells as it takes the ink and you'll get head strikes.

GE is set to econo mode.

As a side note: The new star wheel mechanism actually raises the foremost set of starwheels high enough to have no contact with the paper. I have had very little problem with starwheel marks before the fix, but if they were visible it would be in areas of dark solid color. The thing that's interesting about this paper is that it REALLY swells as it takes the ink so that by the end of a 10x15 print the paper has raised up in spots enough to make a few of the star wheels turn. I don't see any marks from that, but I'd only expect to see them in areas of dark solid color, so again time will tell. If they do show up I wouldn't hesitate to put an additional spacer (maybe 1/16") of some kind under the new shims to keep the star wheels completely of the paper as it swells, because there is plenty of room for that and the whole starwheel assembly is on a spring loaded mechanism.

DLS

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #146 on: February 26, 2008, 06:23:44 pm »

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Just for further information, that is the part number for just the rollers.  There is an updated one (I don't have it anymore, threw out the paper I wrote it down on) that also includes the new alignment tool.

I had the part number you stated shipped to me - my tech had the new one shipped to him and brought it.

I wonder if it was just a limited test, since I'm the only one that seems to have the new version so far?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177581\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

We just popped my rollers in and out using the "strap" spacer. The whole thing took about 10 minutes with no need to realign.

I think that's the way to go...

kaelaria

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #147 on: February 26, 2008, 06:37:44 pm »

Oh believe me, I'm really wishing they had done that to me too...third time's the charm perhaps?  LOL

What really makes me wonder, is because the new roller assemblies STILL had to have all the rollers swapped.  Both kits I had were new arms with the old style rollers attached like I posted.  Then a bag of the new rollers.  The new part number simply also included the tool.  The arms looked identical to all three of us, so did the rollers.  I have no idea, other than possible damage, why they would have a new procedure to swap the assemblies whole.  I would image the assemblies didn't have the new rollers already on them simply because they are not a production part yet.

I bet when they get this all sorted out, there will be a third part number, with the new rollers preinstalled on the arms, and the tool.
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Jim Cole

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« Reply #148 on: February 26, 2008, 07:06:18 pm »

Thanks DLS. I'll give the Gloss - Thick settings a try and see if I have any success. Since I'm using sheets right now, I don't have to worry about any star-wheel marks or head strikes on the curved surface of roll paper. Of, course, I've never experienced any star-wheel marks on any paper I've tried...knock on wood!

Jim
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DLS

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #149 on: February 26, 2008, 08:10:05 pm »

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Thanks DLS. I'll give the Gloss - Thick settings a try and see if I have any success. Since I'm using sheets right now, I don't have to worry about any star-wheel marks or head strikes on the curved surface of roll paper. Of, course, I've never experienced any star-wheel marks on any paper I've tried...knock on wood!

Jim
www.jimcolephoto.com
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I hope it works for you.

I'm curious: what do your pinch roller marks normally look like ? For me they were always subtle except in the one case.

Jim Cole

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #150 on: February 26, 2008, 11:49:11 pm »

Since the roller upgrade, they are subtle, but visible when the print is looked under bright light, especially at an angle.

Just finished profiling the Harman using the gloss preset and the target printed out nicely. May be the first with this paper without roller marks. I will look at it again tomorrow before I do a test print.

Jim


Quote
I hope it works for you.

I'm curious: what do your pinch roller marks normally look like ? For me they were always subtle except in the one case.
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kaelaria

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #151 on: February 27, 2008, 01:32:14 pm »

Just an update on mine - I just had a call from a 2nd more experienced tech.  He had to order his copy of the install tool and will be out tomorrow.  He was aware of the issue and even guessed what was happening when I started to tell him the story.  He said he was going to call and yell at the other tech (in jest) lol!
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deanwork

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #152 on: February 27, 2008, 08:27:34 pm »

I just set up my new 44" Z and couldn't be happier. Everything profiles great and as long as mechanical problems avoid me, I think this is a fantastic piece of equipment. I'd trade all my house full of Epsons for it if I had to. I also found regular H. Photorag to work just fine and profiles the same.

The only fiber gloss paper I've run through it so far is the Ilford Gold which I really like ( and half the price of Harmon by the way) in all respects. I am seeing occasional roller marks very light,  when a lot of ink is laid down, which look like they are from the Gloss Enhancer layer. They are very difficult to see if you are not looking carefully. I just sprayed two light coats of Permier Art spray and they completely disappered. Of coures the whole idea of having a gloss enhancer and this printer is NOT to have to spray gloss prints. But, I'll do this until I find time to have them come over and replace the rollers with the brown ones. I've seen no star wheels so far.

I have all the other gloss fiber papers here including the Harmon, Hahnemuhle, and both Innova surfaces, and will try them as well. I expect the results to be similar.

John
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Jim Cole

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« Reply #153 on: February 28, 2008, 10:53:23 am »

Update: Since profiling the Harman Gloss FB Al with the Gloss - Standard preset, the first test print looks very good - no roller marks. I raised the starwheel assembly to the high position just to make sure I wouldn't get any paper strikes at all. Of course I used up my last sheets of Harman and cannot do any more prints at this time.

I might give the Ilford Gold Silk a try as it seems to be well liked and performs well on the Z.

Jim
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kaelaria

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #154 on: February 28, 2008, 10:59:31 am »

Blah - the new tech's tool is delayed by FedEx due to airport weather up north.  He'll try and come tomorrow if it shows up.
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stevenh

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #155 on: February 28, 2008, 01:33:35 pm »

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Oh believe me, I'm really wishing they had done that to me too...third time's the charm perhaps?  LOL

What really makes me wonder, is because the new roller assemblies STILL had to have all the rollers swapped.  Both kits I had were new arms with the old style rollers attached like I posted.  Then a bag of the new rollers.  The new part number simply also included the tool.  The arms looked identical to all three of us, so did the rollers.  I have no idea, other than possible damage, why they would have a new procedure to swap the assemblies whole.  I would image the assemblies didn't have the new rollers already on them simply because they are not a production part yet.

I bet when they get this all sorted out, there will be a third part number, with the new rollers preinstalled on the arms, and the tool.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177594\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


we had a set of 4 or 5 assemblies that had the old rollers and a bag of individual new rollers as well. he replaced the old rollers on the original assemblies with out removing the original assemblies using the strap all according to the included instructions.  also took about 10 mins. our assumption was that the extra included black assemblies were in case some of the originals cracked, broke or were malformed.     i gave the extra parts to the field tech since if i needed them he would be the one to put them in anyway.  so far no problems. but i have only been using either the hanne. fineart paper or the HP ip gloss. all look great.  the GE softens the gloss to look more like air dry which is what i am wanting.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 11:58:09 am by stevenh »
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kaelaria

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« Reply #156 on: February 28, 2008, 01:38:36 pm »

My new tech read me some of the tool instructions, and it exaplins why the first guy did it incorrectly.  The tool is apprantly for holding them and removing the spring on each one, and simply positioning them for tightening the mounting screws.  The first guys didn't use it at all for disassembly, and that's probably why they disassembled the whole damn thing.  One guy was on top the other on the bottom, to get the springs.  I have a feeling this new tech will do it all from above using the tool correctly.

It just doesn't make any sense, if the arms are the same, why they need to be swapped.  I'll ask him when he's here.
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stevenh

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #157 on: February 28, 2008, 01:42:29 pm »

it might be good to have the settings you all figure out for the different papers collected and put up here and/or on the z3100 wiki.

it might save a lot of people some frustration. in addition it may indicate to HP that this place can be an excellent resource for them beyond just hearing who hates them and who is fine. After all not even HP can test every type of paper out there.

if you want, you can send the settings ( as complete and specific as possible) along with the name and brand of paper including the part number to me via my username on this site. I will collate them and repost. include any notes or comments/hints and i will add those as well. If there is a paper that simply will not work include it and we can temporarily put it as "not recommended".
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kaelaria

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« Reply #158 on: February 29, 2008, 02:08:00 pm »

And a big shock, the new tech got his tool but now is understaffed today and can't come out till Monday.
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kaelaria

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« Reply #159 on: March 03, 2008, 01:54:04 pm »

I'm beginning to feel sorry for these guys.

After 3 hours of trial and error with the tool, which apparently doesn't work all that well, it looks good so far.

When they first arrived, I showed them the problem, and they tried the tool again according to instructions.  Well, that fixed the paper jam problem, but on the thin HP paper it reintroduced the head strike.

So they went back to the drawing board and manually put the rollers in a middle ground setting, and both paper types print and feed normally right now.

So if any of you get new parts put in with the tool, be sure to try thick and thin papers before they leave, the installed roller position with the tool may not work for everyone.

I'll be printing more tonight and they will again follow up in a couple days.  I'll do so here as well.
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