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Author Topic: Alain Briot's "Style"  (Read 6565 times)

John Camp

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Alain Briot's "Style"
« on: December 04, 2007, 12:30:03 am »

I really can't dissent from Alain's essay; it all makes a lot of sense. A couple of observations:

I was once looking through a compendium of Robert Mapplethorpe's nastier photos with a couple of people, and one asked, "Why would he photograph anything like that?" and the other guy, who was an architecture critic and one of the smarter people I know, answered, "Because that's what he's interested in."

An awful lot of people on internet forums seem to have an interest in cameras and sensors and in being "a pro," but they really have no passion; I personally think the thing that makes a style, is passion, and it has to be there before the camera. One of the reasons that Weston took terrific, ground-breaking nudes is that he was very interested in the nude lady. I don't like Sylvia Plachy at all, but I could pick out one of her pictures from hundreds of others, from across the street. The same with Ansel Adams (who had a passion, I think, for clear air), Jock Sturgis, Diane Arbus, Paul Caponigro, and all the others. On the other hand, you have somebody like Lee Miller, about whom there have been a number of recent books: she took some good war photos during WWII, and some decent fashion photos, and some okay art-type photos with Man Ray, and she even posed nude for some really glorious photos by Man Ray...but unlike Man Ray, she didn't seem to have a style. I have looked at a lot of Lee Miller photos, but, going on style, I couldn't pick one, for sure, from a choice of two.  

The thing about any good artist who has a style is that cameras, sensors or film, photographer tricks, etc. -- or paint for painters, or stone for sculptors, or typewriters for writers -- are a relatively trivial aspect of the work. You have to be fascinated by a subject matter, or you're SOL. Try to think of a guy who was a great war photographer, and then became a great portrait artist, and then a great landscape photographer, and then a great figure artist, and then a great news photographer..and you can't think of any, because because guys who are *really* good are more interested in a subject matter than in a career as a photographer (or painter or writer). Despite themselves, they keep coming back to that subject matter. They can't resist it; it's a drug.

To be fairly good or competent at everything is to be a pro; to have a laser-like fixation on one subject matter that you can't get away from, and to then try to get at that subject from every possible angle, and to lie awake at nights trying to think how to get at it better...that's an artist.

You can get to be a pro by going to school long enough; artists don't need no stinkin' schools.

One of the things that I sense about a lot of people on photography forums is that they may have wide interests -- they're intellectuals of a technical kind -- and they sort of like the cool image that they think photographers have, or the idea of themselves as artists, and maybe they'll get to jump a model sometime, or get a neat photography hat, but they're really actors, who are mostly interested in themselves and their personal self-images. If that's the case, well, most people might do best to take pictures of themselves (although that artistic niche is already pretty fully occupied), and who knows, it might turn out to be art.

(And I hasten to say that I think there are a number of serious artists on this board.)

In any case, I believe that style follows passion, and rarely or never runs the other way. If you don't have the passion, you'll never be *really* good as an artist. If you do, then you've got a shot at being *really* good; and if you persist in the work, a style will emerge spontaneously and inevitably, as a result of the passion.

JC
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wolfnowl

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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2007, 12:50:50 am »

FWIW, I agree...

Mike.
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Rob C

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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2007, 05:14:20 am »

John, you are absolutely on the money, and also absolutely on the reason why so much internet photography discourse is bollocks. Those who are pros already know how difficult it is, how unlikely it is that you will get to exercise the artistic freedom which you thought you were dedicating your life to, and how the reality of the career is light years away from the dream that brought you to it in the first place.

The career. I understand seduction by association: I already lived the dream of being another Bailey, Avedon, King, Moon, Sieff et al and the photographer that I did become was none of those - I became just myself, able to do what I was capable of doing, what circumstances and the clients that I managed to collect along the way could finance that I do. I also had the balls to get out of what was going to kill me, which was working for the general public. I have recounted this epiphany before, but it happened to me one rainy afternoon on church steps in a sad part of Glasgow as I awaited the arrival of a wedding party. I had this awful moment when I though to myself: how would you feel if David Bailey drove past in his Roller and smiled to himself as he saw you doing what you are about to be doing? That was the very last such assignment.

Can you ever shake your convictions, your real love and interest? No, you can not.

Throughout my working life I was job-driven rather than money-driven; it was far from the most sensible way of running a business, but running a business wasn´t what I was really intereted in, it was the work! There were certainly goal magazines that I thought would mark my entry into heaven - some shoots for Vogue promotions were as close as it got, not editorial and certainly not heavenly either! In the end, it was calendars that gave the relative freedom and not stock, which you might be forgiven for thinking could be the ultimate ego trip!

Today, though the work pressures have gone, the ability to follow the dream has gone with them too. Finance dictates that those models remain in the past; so I try a variety of other genres and what happens? What happens is that I spend long, weary days and nights sitting in front of a boring computer, risking DVT for nothing more rewarding than trying to get the ultimate on-screen vision of something I´ve shot in the distant past, knowing full well that it will end up in the relative disappointment of a piece of paper which brings back neither the past nor the creative buzz of making the shot happen. And which will never match the bloody vision on the monitor anyway! The current, available alternatives - landscape, townscape, people in the street or the marketplace, I´ve tried them all these last few years and found them wanting because they are not the one true love, the one you wrote about lying in bed at night thinking how you could do it even better than you have.

So there´s the other part of the equation, the result of actually following the dream and finding that whilst you are still perfectly able to still function, the current of life has moved on and left you marooned at a point beyond your ability to swim back into the race - a race not with the competition but with yourself.

Don´t you just envy the guy who never suffered the ecstacy of a creative moment?

Rob C
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 11:23:47 am by Rob C »
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Morris Taub

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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2007, 07:15:35 am »

Quote
Don´t you just envy the guy who never suffered the ecstacy of a creative moment?

Rob C
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No...

M

djgarcia

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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2007, 04:43:41 pm »

For me, I really enjoy bringing back and sharing a moment I had on the field where I went, "Ooohh! Pretty!" and took a snap. I've learned much from Alain to maximize the return I get from that snapshot, but also I've learned to mostly keep it my view and vision, and not try to be something else I'm not, including some of the things he'd rather see me do, but I'm too pigheaded to do . You gotta respect a guy who respects that ...

Ultimately, if you're not going to enjoy shooting, why bother? So you make some enjoyable compromises and go shooting, and occasionally surprise yourself when you end up biting back some of that compromise towards enjoyment, because you begin to enjoy the commitment to not compromise. Or something like that.

OK, I may be a confused (and confusing) soul, but I am enjoying myself and photography . And just use whatever equipment brings you most enjoyment, be it Canon, Nikon or whatever. If you enjoy your shooting it will show in your images.
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framah

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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2007, 05:07:51 pm »

At one point, I tried to actually shoot stuff to make money.  By that I mean, when I looked thru the view finder, I thought... I can probably sell this one.  Those shots never gave me the chills when I shot it.  I quickly realized that while a few of them sold, I was very unhappy with what I was producing with my camera.

So, I said to myself that from now on, I was shooting solely for my own satisfaction ( you know.. tough noogies if you don't like it!!)  and if an image sold, then all the better. If I'm not happy while I'm shooting, I might as well be sitting in a cubicle in an office.
Now I am quite happy creating custom framing for the public which makes enough money to head out a few times a year and do what I thoroughly enjoy, which is creating images that I like.
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wolfnowl

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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2007, 12:28:04 am »

Stole this from George Jardine's blog site (http://www.mulita.com/blog/)

“So much of it is having faith in your work and your vision. If you believe in yourself, and you believe in what you’re doing, and you illustrate your vision, then the money will come, and everything will fall into place.” - Catherine Hall
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Rob C

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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2007, 11:22:36 am »

Quote from: wolfnowl,Dec 5 2007, 05:28 AM
Stole this from George Jardine's blog site (http://www.mulita.com/blog/)

“So much of it is having faith in your work and your vision. If you believe in yourself, and you believe in what you’re doing, and you illustrate your vision, then the money will come, and everything will fall into place.” - Catherine Hall
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158324\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/

As with most of these cute little catch-phrases, sometimes it do and sometimes it don´t.

There are many talented musicians sitting out there without the phone ringing; there are many talented writers who can´t find a publisher who will bite. Why should photographers expect a better deal? It is just one more of those daft, ego-centric occupations best enjoyed as a hobby. Had the success, known the highs and suffered the lows. Advice? It´s a single man´s industry: you have to be free to follow your star and your pay packet, wherever and whenever it calls. Have gun will travel really sums it up.

Yes, you can sit in a quiet little town and be known as the local hero with camera; but is that what being a photographer means to you?

Ciao - Rob C´

jerrygrasso96

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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2007, 07:50:50 am »

I have been looking for style and vision over the last few years as if I were on a quest for the Holy Grail. Some days, I'm excited about what I have just produced, then a few days later I look at it, smack the top of my head and say "What was i thinking?" And that is exactly my biggest adversary: At times, I just think too much! But I always seem to come back around to the same basic realization: I do this because I really do enjoy this and it satisfies a basic personal need I have which is the need to use my imagination and create something!

Rob C: I don't think I have read anything from you that sounded so bleak before. I enjoy reading your insights and observations, and I think you also have a flair for writing, though. I think all artists endure the manic highs and lows that come with our or any craft. It's what we do in between that is important...

I have read many of Alain's articles on his website and I find inspiration and plenty of food for the artistic soul searcher to quench the appetite, if even for just a brief moment.

But the one thing I am in complete agreement with that has been already stated here, is that your passion, if intense enough, will carry you eventually to vision and style...
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Rob C

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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2007, 01:09:12 pm »

Jerry

I´m sorry to depress you - it isn´t really what I wanted to do to anyone; I was actually trying to respond to the cutesy little quotation that, in effect, suggests that if you just keep on in there truckin´  then everything will turn out fine in the end.

Sadly, life usually begs to differ, the reality being that you have to be ahead of the game simply to be able to stand still, never more so than since the advent of digital, where the professional saw his investment in Hasselblad, Leica, Nikon, Canon and the rest turn to not a lot more than loose change, an investment made at a time when it was thought to be good for a period of at least ten years!

The  initial article was about style - okay, what that might or might not be is vague, to say the least, and fertile ground for anyone wishing to write about it - all intangibles offer huge scope to those who wish to pursue them in print, if only because nothing can ever be proven either one way or the other. It also strikes me as a bit odd to think that style grows with practice. As I see it, you are born with your style and everybody has it: the difference, of course, is that some people have great style whilst that of others just sucks.

Basically, your style is what you are, ain´t no more to it.

But the success thing is little to do with style at all, it is everything to do with personality, conviction and most of all, great street smarts. Here I am assuming a competence of craftsmanship as a given.

So I hope not bleak, Jerry, just very weary of facile, sunny platitudes.

Ciao - Rob C

djgarcia

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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2007, 02:19:12 pm »

What I have found is that success is much more about marketing than creating, and often has little to do with happiness and enjoyment ... I must be getting really old!

Having said that, there's nothing to rule out having both good marketing AND creating what you like, just thet they each have to be addressed specifically, which I think phases in with what Rob is saying.
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Rob C

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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2007, 05:29:54 pm »

Quote
What I have found is that success is much more about marketing than creating, and often has little to do with happiness and enjoyment ... I must be getting really old!

Having said that, there's nothing to rule out having both good marketing AND creating what you like, just thet they each have to be addressed specifically, which I think phases in with what Rob is saying.
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Yes, not to mention the painful fact that good marketing skill and good photographic skill do not often reside within the same person!

But then, that´s only of any moment if you have to live by your cameras. Which, of course, is why I remarked that it makes a far better hobby than job. Unless, of course, you do posses all the required additional attributes!

Rob C

Slobodan Blagojevic

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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2007, 08:17:21 pm »

Quote
...I was actually trying to respond to the cutesy little quotation that, in effect, suggests that if you just keep on in there truckin´  then everything will turn out fine in the end.

Sadly, life usually begs to differ, ...
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Rob,

I immensely enjoyed your initial post in this thread and your subsequent comments. I admire your ability to grasp life realities in general an your own in particular... most people prefer rationalization or self-delusion.

Come to think of it, that "cutesy little quotation" is not that bad as some others; it only promises that in the end "money will come". It does not say how much money though, nor that you will become #1 in your field, incredibly rich, famous and live happily ever after (i.e, the mass culture definition of success).

Speaking of success... very few people realize or are willing to accept that all success is accidental. They prefer "cutesy little quotations" that would attribute it to some combination of hard work and talent (like the famous 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration). It does not mean of course that hard work and talent are not important (although there are numerous famous and successful people who possess neither). But, as in math, they are only "necessary, but not sufficient" conditions for success. The rest is randomness, chance and luck (for those interested in elaborating it further, check "The Black Swan" bestseller by N. Taleb, or his first book "Fooled By Randomness"). To use your example, there are numerous talented and hard working writers, musicians and photographers who will never make it to the #1 (and not even to the first thousand), because they are players in the game ruled by randomness, where there are only two rules: there could only be one winner and that winner takes it all.

Oh, boy, did I digress here... the initial subject was style and passion, and here I am, debating the philosophy of success... my apologies.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 08:18:47 pm by slobodan56 »
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jjj

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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2007, 08:39:37 pm »

Quote
Speaking of success... very few people realize or are willing to accept that all success is accidental. They prefer "cutesy little quotations" that would attribute it to some combination of hard work and talent (like the famous 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration). It does not mean of course that hard work and talent are not important (although there are numerous famous and successful people who possess neither). But, as in math, they are only "necessary, but not sufficient" conditions for success. The rest is randomness, chance and luck (for those interested in elaborating it further, check "The Black Swan" bestseller by N. Taleb, or his first book "Fooled By Randomness"). To use your example, there are numerous talented and hard working writers, musicians and photographers who will never make it to the #1 (and not even to the first thousand), because they are players in the game ruled by randomness, where there are only two rules: there could only be one winner and that winner takes it all. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159149\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The apposite quote here is "It's funny, but the more I practice, the luckier I get". I think it was Lee Trevino who said this after someone commented how lucky his getting a difficult putt was.
Luck can indeed play a part, whether good or bad. But you usually make your own 'luck'.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 08:40:12 pm by jjj »
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jjj

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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2007, 08:49:41 pm »

Quote
I have been looking for style and vision over the last few years as if I were on a quest for the Holy Grail. Some days, I'm excited about what I have just produced, then a few days later I look at it, smack the top of my head and say "What was i thinking?" And that is exactly my biggest adversary: At times, I just think too much! [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158903\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ooh, thinking, you don't want to do too much of that!  
Maybe it could even be argued if you have to think about it, rather than just feeling it, you are thinking too much.
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Rob C

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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2007, 06:02:09 am »

Quote
Ooh, thinking, you don't want to do too much of that!  
Maybe it could even be argued if you have to think about it, rather than just feeling it, you are thinking too much.
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You are not wrong there - in photography, at least, it has to be automatic in the sense that you don´t consciously think about whether this does or does not suit your hoped-for style; you just, to quote Nike, do it!

Slobodan, I know only too well the anger, frustration and general unhappiness that comes into your life if you take the creative path too seriously - which you have already done once you embrace it as your way to survival - and there is nothing much that writing about it, fighting against it or getting argumentative with the world in general will do to help.

I watched the last part of a BBC tv programme the other night where some of the current world championship art photographers were wheeled on show: to say that their work was exciting would be a lie; to say that their gallerist promoters were clever would be the truth. Add in the crowd earning its keep from WRITING about photography and curating shows etc. and you have the basis for the mega-deals that send ordinary prints into the financial stratosphere. There is probably nothing on Earth that cannot be sold to somebody if it can be shown to provide an investment possibility.

Were my pics included in the magic circle, then of course, I would argue the opposite position.

Smile about it - it´s the way of the world, unfortunately.

Ciao - Rob C
« Last Edit: December 08, 2007, 06:03:50 am by Rob C »
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