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Author Topic: HP Z3100 With 3rd Party Inks  (Read 3020 times)

innesfoto

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HP Z3100 With 3rd Party Inks
« on: November 30, 2007, 05:58:30 am »

Hi there
This is my first post on Luminous Landscape, I am a Landscape photographer operating in Austria, and print large 44" prints of my work. I work with medium format 6x6 and 6x17 and print up to 1x1Meter or 1 x 3 meter exhibition prints. Print quality is really important to me and so is the reliability and quality of the gear I use.
I currently have the Epson Pro 9600 which I use for the big print work. I have found that running the machine on Pigments from a third party firm I have found, produces better quality repro than that from Epsons own inks. Not only that but they come in at a fraction of the price.
I am frankly sick of repairing this machine endlessly, because of issues with a blocked head or clogged dampers. I have replaced the head in this machine for the fourth time in three years. Before anyone says it must be the ink, the first two heads where with Epsons own inksets. This for me is just an unexceptible situation, costing money in endless head cleans and parts that have to be shipped from Germany.
So I am looking for a new machine. What to buy is the burning question.
my list is:
1)HP Z3100
2)Canon ipf 8000 or an 8100
3)Epson Pro 9800 or 9880

I print mainly on Hahnemühle art papers and on Breathing colour brlliant white canvas. So the media is pretty heavy and ink thirsty blink.gif . I understand that Epson have pressurized their new ink cartridges which i guess means will be problematic to use third party ink. Plus there is the issue on the Epson of not being able to print on gloss media without having to drain down the Matt Black channel. Which wouldn´t be so bad if the cassette sucked the ink back up before changing over, but it doesn´t.
Then there is the issue of what happens when you get a clogged head.
So for me the Hp and the Canon seem to look more attractive.
What I don´t know and would like to throw out to you all is;
Do the other two systems (HP and Canon) run on pressurized cassettes? and can you use third party inks with them?
Does the Canon also have a user changeable head, and if so at what sort of price.
And what is the difference between the the various Z3100 machines? ie: Z3100, Z3100ps GP, and the Z3100GP.
And is the profiler in the standard machine any good? and if so why is there an optional device?
So I guess thats about it. I would love to hear comment from anyone that has one of these machines and prints on similar media, and what they reckon.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
regards
Andy
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Ernst Dinkla

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HP Z3100 With 3rd Party Inks
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 06:37:26 am »

Quote
Print quality is really important to me and so is the reliability and quality of the gear I use. I currently have the Epson Pro 9600 which I use for the big print work. I have found that running the machine on Pigments from a third party firm I have found, produces better quality repro than that from Epsons own inks. Not only that but they come in at a fraction of the price.
I am frankly sick of repairing this machine endlessly, because of issues with a blocked head or clogged dampers. I have replaced the head in this machine for the fourth time in three years. Before anyone says it must be the ink, the first two heads where with Epsons own inksets.

[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I have been on that road with Epsons with and without third party inks. There's no reason to use third party inks anymore for image quality with the new models and the new competition. Whether the use of third party inks is that economic is another thing I have my doubts about after 8 months of using the Z3100 with its Vivera inks and 8 years of Epsons. What will be available in alternative inks in the future is hard to say but carts constructions + ink channel systems of the three are equally complex and the three companies seem to be more successful in fighting patent issues with third party companies than in the past. If it will still happen then the fact that HP's heads are more easily replaced and less costly than the alternatives may be a factor to consider. Till then it has at least a very low ink consumption, again compared to the others. I have no taste for adventure anymore. Of the Z3100 models the PS has APS aboard and prints to any length next to its Postscript interpreting. That  justifies the higher cost compared to the plain Z3100.

Every model has issues, this forum here sums it up quite well.

Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 08:13:45 am by Ernst Dinkla »
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rdonson

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HP Z3100 With 3rd Party Inks
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 08:15:23 am »

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Do the other two systems (HP and Canon) run on pressurized cassettes? and can you use third party inks with them?

And what is the difference between the the various Z3100 machines? ie: Z3100, Z3100ps GP, and the Z3100GP.

And is the profiler in the standard machine any good? and if so why is there an optional device?

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157211\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andy,

I really don't know if the HP carts are pressurized.  I'm personally very happy with the HP inkset and can't imagine using 3rd party inks.

I think Ernst summed up the differences between the Z3100 machines well.

The spectro in all Z machines is an Xrite i1 LED spectro which is used to calibrate the printer and create ICC profiles.  The base offerings create RGB profiles from 400 patch targets.  The APS offering adds the ability to create profiles from targets with a larger number of patches (typically 918) and the ability to do some easy editing of the profiles.  The base offering and APS are written so that you don't need to be a color scientist to create and use good ICC profiles.
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Regards,
Ron

innesfoto

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HP Z3100 With 3rd Party Inks
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2007, 08:40:46 am »

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Andy,

I really don't know if the HP carts are pressurized.  I'm personally very happy with the HP inkset and can't imagine using 3rd party inks.

I think Ernst summed up the differences between the Z3100 machines well.

The spectro in all Z machines is an Xrite i1 LED spectro which is used to calibrate the printer and create ICC profiles.  The base offerings create RGB profiles from 400 patch targets.  The APS offering adds the ability to create profiles from targets with a larger number of patches (typically 918) and the ability to do some easy editing of the profiles.  The base offering and APS are written so that you don't need to be a color scientist to create and use good ICC profiles.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157229\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi there
Thanks for the replies, So if I understand rightly, the APS will give you a more precise profile as it creates roughly double the profiling targets.
And the question is do I really need the APS system. I currently have my papers all profiled and and it was a one off thing that has lasted the life of the machine. So once you have profiled the paper does the APS still perform any task? ie. fine tuning the print colour output from one day to the next.  The reason I ask is, that this gizmo costs an extra €900 and a paper profile from my suppliers costs me about €50.00.
Does the finished profile on both machines allow for profile tweaking by the user. or is the profile fixed and not changeable?
Also I am really interested in how the New Canon ipf8100 machine stacks up, and has it also got an interchangable  head system.
Thanks again for your replies
Andy
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rdonson

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HP Z3100 With 3rd Party Inks
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2007, 09:30:16 am »

Quote
Hi there
Thanks for the replies, So if I understand rightly, the APS will give you a more precise profile as it creates roughly double the profiling targets.
And the question is do I really need the APS system. I currently have my papers all profiled and and it was a one off thing that has lasted the life of the machine. So once you have profiled the paper does the APS still perform any task? ie. fine tuning the print colour output from one day to the next.  The reason I ask is, that this gizmo costs an extra €900 and a paper profile from my suppliers costs me about €50.00.
Does the finished profile on both machines allow for profile tweaking by the user. or is the profile fixed and not changeable?
Also I am really interested in how the New Canon ipf8100 machine stacks up, and has it also got an interchangable  head system.
Thanks again for your replies
Andy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157233\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andy,

The APS includes an i1 Display 2 for calibrating/profiling your monitor as well.  APS is then the one place for maintaining your monitor and profiling papers.  

APS allows you to adjust the profile output and softproofing.  I haven't done this as I have a friend with deep color mgmt expertise who warned me that this might be a slippery slope.

Anyway, here's an example of what you can do in APS with regards to editing the profile.

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Regards,
Ron

innesfoto

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HP Z3100 With 3rd Party Inks
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2007, 06:00:23 am »

Quote
Hi there
Thanks for the replies, So if I understand rightly, the APS will give you a more precise profile as it creates roughly double the profiling targets.
And the question is do I really need the APS system. I currently have my papers all profiled and and it was a one off thing that has lasted the life of the machine. So once you have profiled the paper does the APS still perform any task? ie. fine tuning the print colour output from one day to the next.  The reason I ask is, that this gizmo costs an extra €900 and a paper profile from my suppliers costs me about €50.00.
Does the finished profile on both machines allow for profile tweaking by the user. or is the profile fixed and not changeable?
Also I am really interested in how the New Canon ipf8100 machine stacks up, and has it also got an interchangable  head system.
Thanks again for your replies
Andy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157233\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for posting that.
That was very informative. I would like to ask though if it is possible to by the Z3100 as a stand alone machine and Buy the APS afterwards or is it something that is already built into the machine?
Thanks for your postings, please keep them coming. I would still love to hear from anyone with hands on experience with the Canon ipf 8000/8100 as to whether this is a viable option, and as to whether it is possible to change the heads in the Canon like it is in the HP. And as to what the software interphase is like.
I have also read some rather alarming accounts of paper roller marks on heavy weight papers with the HP, Anyone with any comments on this would also be very welcome.
Andy
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neil snape

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HP Z3100 With 3rd Party Inks
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2007, 07:35:18 am »

There are a lot of posts already here on this forum in regard to APS. On my review I also have images etc on APS.

For printers that make a large production banner or other, APS is probably not necessary as the built in profiles are good enough. Yet the APS profiles are globally better in every aspect for photographic repro, and an absolute necessity for onboard CMYK profiles.

In it's debut, it lacked some of the essential features expected , but those features were added shortly after, and now all the essential options are enabled.

The profiles come from the UV cut i1 Rev d ( hmm I think it is ) from which the gathered spectral info is recorded into the profile. If you drag and drop any APS profile into Profile Maker, you can recreate new profiles in whatever personalized fashion you need.
I think it is essential to the printer for a serious photographer, and the price considering an i1D2 comes with it a bargain, compared to an IsIs, + soft to create profiles, plus an i1D2.
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rdonson

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HP Z3100 With 3rd Party Inks
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2007, 01:56:28 pm »

If you haven't already read it...  Neil's Z review
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Regards,
Ron
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