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Author Topic: The biggest issue: Ink Waste  (Read 4497 times)

Abdulrahman Aljabri

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The biggest issue: Ink Waste
« on: November 29, 2007, 08:45:00 am »

The Canon IPF5000 is available for an amazing deal, and I am interested in buying one. I started researching this printer and stumbled upon a big problem that seems to effect all large format pigment printers, that is, ink waste.

According to John's research, if left ideal, the IPF5000 wastes 2.5ml of ink per day. I am a casual photographer that will print no more than 100-200 large prints per year. Thus, using this printer, will waist most of my ink.

The question is, are 13" printers, including B9180 and 9500PRO, any better in this area? Do they waist any ink, or much less ink than the larger printers? They, too, are pigment printers, and use practically the same ink the larger and more professional printers use.

I am asking because while researching those two printers I never found any mention of this issue. On the other hand, while researching 17"+ printers, I found many references to ink waste.  

Please share your insight, thanks
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John Hollenberg

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The biggest issue: Ink Waste
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 10:06:50 am »

Quote
The Canon IPF5000 is available for an amazing deal, and I am interested in buying one. I started researching this printer and stumbled upon a big problem that seems to effect all large format pigment printers, that is, ink waste.

According to John's research, if left ideal, the IPF5000 wastes 2.5ml of ink per day. I am a casual photographer that will print no more than 100-200 large prints per year. Thus, using this printer, will waist most of my ink.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=156930\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

However, remember that my results were with a particular pattern of use (leaving printer in sleep mode all the time, printing every couple of weeks).  We don't know if the ink waste would be less leaving the printer off for two weeks and then turning it on to print.  There is one data point suggesting this might be MORE wasteful, but there is no consensus on this, and the firmware has been updated since that data was published.  Reportedly, the experimenter was in contact with Canon engineers who were surprised at the amount of ink used in his experiments when the printer was left off for a couple of weeks and may have modified the firmware to fix this problem.  

What hasn't been tested (at least by me, I haven't gotten around to it) is making at least one print every day, even a small one to "exercise" the nozzles.  I keep meaning to do this test to see if less ink would be wasted with this pattern of use.  I suspect that it would, but don't have the data yet.

However, in the end you are right that so far all of the printers seems to waste a significant amount of ink with cleanings.  Don't know about the Z3100, but it is a lot more expensive than the iPF5000.

--John
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jerryrock

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The biggest issue: Ink Waste
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 10:15:18 am »

I have used the iPF5000 for about 10 months and absolutely love this printer. The learning curve was difficult at first, but with John Hollenberg's support Wiki it is no longer a problem.

This printer has had more attention than most, being reviewed, criticized and commented on ad nauseam.

This does not distract from the fact that it makes gorgeous prints.

To answer some of your concerns, every ink jet printer goes through head cleaning cycles. This will vary according to your usage and whether you turn the printer off when not being used for long periods of time, or leave it on in standby mode. Recent firmware updates have lowered the ink use and frequency of cleaning cycles. The total ink volume for this printer is 1,440 ML. With large capacity ink tanks the cost per print is much lower compared to smaller printers. The iPF5000 does not waste ink when switching from Photo Black to Matte Black as it's competitors do. This should be factored in to total ink usage as well.

I have not read one report of ink head clogging with this printer, unlike the Epson printers that are notorious for clogging.

To sum up my rambling, you have to look at the total picture and cost per print or per ML of ink when making your decision to buy an inkjet printer.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 10:15:46 am by jerryrock »
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Abdulrahman Aljabri

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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 10:27:55 am »

Compared to the other smaller printers there is a saving with bigger ink tanks, but is that saving waisted away with daily nozzle maintenance? Do smaller printers go through the same nozzles exercise as the bigger printers? Since they both share the same technology I would assume so, but from reading all the reviews I get the impression as if ink waste is no issue with smaller printers like the B9180. Is this a false impression?


Thanks
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Dale_Cotton

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The biggest issue: Ink Waste
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 10:41:59 am »

Quote
Compared to the other smaller printers there is a saving with bigger ink tanks, but is that saving waisted away with daily nozzle maintenance? Do smaller printers go through the same nozzles exercise as the bigger printers? Since they both share the same technology I would assume so, but from reading all the reviews I get the impression as if ink waste is no issue with smaller printers like the B9180. Is this a false impression?
Flushing ink through the nozzles of the print head to prevent clogs is part of the self-cleaning regimen of all makes of printers, so far as I know. My Epson 4000 have an automatic scheduled process that kicks in roughly once a week. My son's little all-in-one has a cleaning routine that kicks in every single day.

The following is some background info that may be of use, with the caveat that it's based my totally non-technical understanding of the technology:

Nozzle clogging has become a serious issue due to

- the extremely narrow nozzle bore used to achieve high print resolutions, and

- the use of pigment inks instead of dye inks. Pigments are now used in pro-level printers for print longevity but pigment particles are much bigger than dye particles.

The combination of narrow nozzles together with large particles means that the slightest evaporation of solvent within a nozzle results in a clog. There are many factors that can contribute to solvent evaporation, but the only practical approach seems to be to frequently replace the ink in the nozzles with new ink whenever the printer is sitting idle.

Based on the above, it shouldn't matter whether a printer is 13" or 17", what matters is the combination of nozzle bore, pigment vs. dye, plus the specific solvent used to make the pigment ink.

Anecdotally, the humidity of the room in which the printer lives can be another major contributing factor. By increasing the room humidity to 70%, combined with making at least one print per day, I've seen a dramatic reduction in clogging with my Epson 4000. And, yes, I understand that many people in dry climates have no problem with clogs. This is certainly a multi-dimensional issue.

BTW: if you're researching printers, one of the critical factors you won't see much report upon in amateur fora and mass media equipment reviews is profilability. It doesn't do you much good to have a printer with a large gamut, great resolution, zero clogging, etc., if you can't get a match between what you see on your monitor and what comes out of the printer. This may be changing in recent years, but one of the things you pay more for in a pro printer is minimal unit-to-unit variance combined with minimal variance over time for any given unit. My understanding is that all the current 17" and wider printers have excellent pedigrees in this regard. What I don't know is whether this is now also true for the current generation of 13" machines, but it certainly wasn't the case when I switched two or three years ago.
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booksmartstudio

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The biggest issue: Ink Waste
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2007, 10:47:19 am »

You may have to move to looking into buying a ipf 5100.  I do not think there are any more ipf5000's left.  Well at least we do not have any printers left.  BTW I think the pro printers are worth it, besides you can just turn it off and waste no ink.  Good luck.
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Abdulrahman Aljabri

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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2007, 11:09:19 am »

Quote
The following is some background info that may be of use, with the caveat that it's based my totally non-technical understanding of the technology:


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=156953\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It was very useful, thanks
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Abdulrahman Aljabri

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The biggest issue: Ink Waste
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2007, 11:14:03 am »

Quote
You may have to move to looking into buying a ipf 5100.  I do not think there are any more ipf5000's left.  Well at least we do not have any printers left.  BTW I think the pro printers are worth it, besides you can just turn it off and waste no ink.  Good luck.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=156956\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Few printers are left at color HQ, but don't tell anyone!!



That's what I thought, use the printer extensively then turn it off for two weeks and then go back to using it again. Though, it seems that many printers will drop the "mother load" of ink in the process of flushing the nozzles after a long break.
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thompsonkirk

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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2007, 11:18:26 am »

There are probably some iPF5000s left, if you search for them.  Canon had to replace mine a week ago, & when I asked for a 5100 they said they still had 5000s.  (Jim Doyle got me a 5100 anyway - thx, Jim!)

I think Canon has located some weak parts in the 5000 - besides the roll-holder gears, a carriage spring.  I had to have quite a few service visits, & for this reason would go with the 5100, even if it's less of a bargain.  (Again, consider Shades of Paper as a helpful dealer.)

Kirk
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booksmartstudio

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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2007, 11:28:44 am »

With any printer you buy, just make sure the supplier will offer good support when things go wrong.  We offer support on printers purchased here and I personally print on my choice of over 20 wide format printers every day.  There is always some kind of troubleshooting or limit pushing going on.  Good luck!
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