A good combo? Or waste of money ...

[ThePhotoDude]

Hello all, wondering if somebody could advise...

I am purchasing a Z3100 44" GP PS in a couple of weeks, that much I know.

I also need a second printer, for running of the business, invoices, letters etc etc.

But it would also be handy to print smaller photos A4/A3 size and not have to run a roll through the Z3100 - so I was thinking about a B9180.

I don't know what my photo print volumes are going to be, if I get an order for 10 A3's then yes I can arrange them side by side in a grid through the Z3100 more cost effectively then 10 singles through the 9180.

But what about 1 x A3? Z3100 or 9180?
I want the 9180 becasue of HP Dreamcolor (consistant quality alongside the Z3100) but it's still an enormous printer of which probably won't fit on my desk.

Any suggestions? Do I buy the B9180 and obviously run a second set of inks, or am I wasting my money?

thanks

[Ernst Dinkla]

Hello all, wondering if somebody could advise...

I am purchasing a Z3100 44" GP PS in a couple of weeks, that much I know.

I also need a second printer, for running of the business, invoices, letters etc etc.

But it would also be handy to print smaller photos A4/A3 size and not have to run a roll through the Z3100 - so I was thinking about a B9180.

I don't know what my photo print volumes are going to be, if I get an order for 10 A3's then yes I can arrange them side by side in a grid through the Z3100 more cost effectively then 10 singles through the 9180.

But what about 1 x A3? Z3100 or 9180?
I want the 9180 becasue of HP Dreamcolor (consistant quality alongside the Z3100) but it's still an enormous printer of which probably won't fit on my desk.

Any suggestions? Do I buy the B9180 and obviously run a second set of inks, or am I wasting my money?

thanks
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Well the ink price on the B9180 is 2.5X that of the Z3100 per ML when you buy 130 ML twin packs for the last. On an A3 that will be 56 Eurocents more ink cost in general if I take the rough 10 ml per square meter for matte papers. The B9180 has some limitations in gloss printing compared to the Z3100 but both models are frugal on ink use for maintenance, a few ml per week when they are on and the B9180 has no gloss enhancer so that can't be counted.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]

[ternst]

PhotoDude:

I have the 44" z and 9180 and Epson 2400. I run a lot of 13/19 sheets through the z and only use the little printers when I'm teaching a workshop. The only issue with printing sheets with the z is the fact that you have to stand there and load each sheet, and sometimes have to spend a couple of minutes while it gets the sheet straight, otherwise the z is great for sheets. If you needed to make more than a single print unattended then you would have no choice but go with another printer that has a cassette - wish HP would make a 17" model of the z. And as Ernst notes, the ink cost is really high on those small printers when compared to the z...

[neil snape]

I had both, and did a lot of testing on both on during the beta period.
In the converging world of pro printers (as in the people not the devices) are also now using prosumer level printers, and photographers going from prosumer sized and quality towards true LFPs, it is a very reasonable decision to have both. To run single sheet proofs on the Z will drive you crazy. To print multiple copy print runs would be illogical to do on a prosumer device for a large job.

The only thing that will prevent you using the 9180 as a second print line specific to limited runs is the fact the inkset will produce a different gamut on the Z3100 compared to the 9180. On B&W printing the GE is essential as well for Satin and above all, Glossy so there too the results will not be the same.
I made some proofing profiles that cover SWOP and ECI quite well just by using the driver for the 9180 that proof to a very high standard. For press proofs , I still see the 9180 as a great secondary printer that accompanies the Z2100 or Z 3100.
I also know and see the absolute best B&W on matte is indeed the 9180 due to the exquisite screening.

[EricWHiss]

I also know and see the absolute best B&W on matte is indeed the 9180 due to the exquisite screening.

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Really?  Wow that is interesting.  But the 9180 has one less black.... how can that be?   I own the b9180 and really think it makes a great print.   Neil can you tell us on which media and settings you think it makes the best black and white with?

[neil snape]

Really?  Wow that is interesting.  But the 9180 has one less black.... how can that be?   I own the b9180 and really think it makes a great print.   Neil can you tell us on which media and settings you think it makes the best black and white with?
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First, the resolution of the stepping motor goes up to 4800 lines per inch. Second the screening resolution and patterns are completely different in nature and maybe the best crafted screens I have seen for an inkjet. Third the screening masks are done at 16 bit depth for a multiple masks in areas that need it.

As for the Quad blacks vs three. The Z only uses 4 greys on a very limited range of matte media. Most matte papers and fine art including Pearl use only three. The difference in adding the 4th black is almost an insignificant difference as on matte paper the step difference between Dmax and the part where mid grey (not lG) begins gets lost in translation. Combine this with 8 bit data workflow and 8 bit screens the results are not as refined as the little 9180. So IMO the 9180 is a bargain for printing very high end B&W on matte/fine art that not only rival but more often than not surpass any other inkjet out there.  Colour on matte is pretty good too but it depends on what paper.

The best media are the rather smooth coated matte papers like Enhanced matte by Epson, or the highly optimised for HP, Hahnemuhle Smooth Fine Art. There are probably a lot of very similar papers in your favourite media vendors portfolio.

[Rob C]

First, the resolution of the stepping motor goes up to 4800 lines per inch. Second the screening resolution and patterns are completely different in nature and maybe the best crafted screens I have seen for an inkjet. Third the screening masks are done at 16 bit depth for a multiple masks in areas that need it.

As for the Quad blacks vs three. The Z only uses 4 greys on a very limited range of matte media. Most matte papers and fine art including Pearl use only three. The difference in adding the 4th black is almost an insignificant difference as on matte paper the step difference between Dmax and the part where mid grey (not lG) begins gets lost in translation. Combine this with 8 bit data workflow and 8 bit screens the results are not as refined as the little 9180. So IMO the 9180 is a bargain for printing very high end B&W on matte/fine art that not only rival but more often than not surpass any other inkjet out there.  Colour on matte is pretty good too but it depends on what paper.

The best media are the rather smooth coated matte papers like Enhanced matte by Epson, or the highly optimised for HP, Hahnemuhle Smooth Fine Art. There are probably a lot of very similar papers in your favourite media vendors portfolio.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157420\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

 Neil

Thanks for making my day; I was starting to think that my enthusiasm for the B9180´s  B/W production was only my own lack of great alternative experience colouring my perspective.

Could I but find a matt paper that has no overly visible surface texture - something like the Jessops material of which I wrote a day or so ago - but was long-life and which would produce beautiful skin tones, then I´d feel really home and dry!

Rob C

[EricWHiss]

...

 So IMO the 9180 is a bargain for printing very high end B&W on matte/fine art that not only rival but more often than not surpass any other inkjet out there.  Colour on matte is pretty good too but it depends on what paper.

...
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Neil,
Thanks for your reply.   Now I really want a 17" HP with sheet feed tray!  I haven no idea what HP plans but an introduction at PMA would be really perfect!

Eric

[ThePhotoDude]

Thanks everybody for all the comments, I have taken them on board and decided I will get the 9180 as well. Can't wait, delivery of both hopefully in two weeks!