Epson 7880 printer

[John Crittenden]

New member. We received our new Epson 7880 printer about one week ago.

I want to begin this post by saying that I have used Epson printers for years and love them. The prints from this 7880 are superb. I should also say that I am a pre-press specialist and began my apprenticeship in the printing industry in Calgary 51 years ago. I have lots of experience over the years in dealing with production problems.

However, this 7880 has a HUGE problem. The print heads appear to be unable to keep from clogging when using the new UltraChrome K3 Inks with Vivid Magenta. Aside from the huge extra cost of ink wasted with daily cleaning they can't even stay clean when printing a large print. I have one canvas where we can see the head clogging as it prints a 30" image with the image getting progressively worse. This print was not useable and right after it finished printing the printer churned for a few minutes cleaning the head again, which it had just done previously that day. This would have cost about $15 in ink and $10 in canvas. This has happened several times during this first week.

I read somewhere that the new nine-channel MicroPiezo TFP print heads in the 11880 printer are hand made and very difficult to make. This may be the reason why Epson was unable to put these new heads in the 4480, 7880 and 9880 printers and were forced to use the heads developed for last year's Ultrachrome K3 inks. Unfortunately, in my experience this will prove to be a big mistake by Epson.

Incidentally, I have done a rough estimate of the extra cost of production. The figure I come up with is about $60/day when printing throughout the day, based on my experience of one week with this printer.

After one week's use we've run out of ink because of the almost continuous cleaning and Epson says that they can't guarantee that replacement inks will be available in BC for at least one week. I wonder why?

So now I'm sitting with no ink for the one light magenta and scratching my head trying to figure out why Epson would have shipped a printer with such a major problem. I mean, what were they thinking?

Are any of you experiencing similar problems with Epson's new line of printers? Is this particular printer defective? Or is it something in the Vancouver air?

[JesseSpeer]

Hi John. I've had my 7880 for about two weeks now. Two days in, a nice clog (CMY) ruined one of my big prints - although I immediately chalked it up to very low humidity (Colorado mountains) - or just "working out the kinks". It DID seem strange that it would clog so soon. 5 successive cleaning cycles took care of the problem, and I haven't had a clog since then. Although I've been running a "menu button clean" in the morning - every other day or so - just to be safe. I have yet to optimize the humidity in my studio. But even on the occasional day where I don't run the cleaning cycle and it's been idle for 24 hours - I haven't had a problem with clogging. So far, I've been averaging about 5-6' of my roll paper per day - mostly premium luster and harman gloss so far. Definitely not the "all day" stuff.

I was pretty concerned after the first clog, but it's been smooth sailing for me since then. But again, I'm a home user with low volume - who upgraded from a 2200. So far, I am extremely thrilled with this printer.

I wonder if the media type as anything to do with it - high canvas volume? I know was a little concerned about how much junk/dust the auto cutter has been producing and spitting out so near the print heads.

[John Crittenden]

Hi Jesse. I've run two rolls of Bulldog canvas plus a few feet of a third. That amounts to about 90 feet or so or 24" rolls. Mostly 14x20" images but a few 22x32". This is my first experience printing on canvas. I think my humidity is okay but I will check that.

My main concern is that if this is indeed a problem then it isn't going to get fixed because the only way to address the issue would be to either change the ink makeup or the print heads. Although they may be having problems with the new inks there's no way they would do a recall to change the print heads.

I might add that for my work I can't see any improvement in image quality from the new inks. The older K3 output was also superb in my opinion. So in retrospect I'm thinking I should have bought a 7800. I'd also be able to experiment with third party inks.

Another issue I've had is some prints are clipped off narrower than they should be. It seems random. I haven't had time to look into that however because I'm out of ink. :-)

I'm glad you're not having the same issues as I am. It is a lovely printer. Thanks for the comeback.

[DougMorgan]

Hello John:

Where in BC are you?

I've had the 9880 for a week now and have had no clogging problems.   Somehow the auto cleaning got set for a day and it seemed to go through a couple quick ink wasting shuffles but I've since turned it off.

I did install a furnace humidifier a couple days ago which was more due to a newly installed water line and the older 4000 rather than the new printer.   I've been keeping the humidity at 40%.  

So far I've done 5 rolls of canvas of various widths and two rolls of enhanced matte at 17 inch.  

The only problem I've had is that with auto-cut off the paper lets out an extra 6 inches of waste when the paper is loaded.  I have noticed that the prints are darker with the basic epson profiles than with the 4000 and am waiting on custom profiles for the few papers I use.  

There is quite a gain from the 4000 to the 9880 in terms of speed and print quality.  Between the 9800 that was printing my larger stuff and the new 9880 there doesn't seem to be much of difference in image quality.  

It really sucks that epson releases the printer without ink available and still refuses to include a matte cartridge in the box.  I ended up having an ink set overnighted from Vistek in Toronto (Thanks again Alison!) since there was apparently no other source in Canada (certainly none in BC) and everyone was stuffing their faces in south of the border.   I've been able to pick up one cartridge locally but everything is backordered and has been for weeks.

Epson obviously cares very little about supplying Canada and though I try to buy local I've pretty much thrown in the towel when it comes to printer supplies.  I was using Epson piezo pro canvas but the supply situation is so bad we were constantly running Canada out of the sizes we required and had to order from three or four different suppliers both here and in the US in hopes that a roll would show up when we need one.   I have another thread that details the thinking that went in to my buying decision so I'll leave that alone.

Doug

[John Hollenberg]

Those clogging stories remind me why I haven't purchased another Epson yet.  While the output is great, I had too many clogging problems with all of the Epsons I have owned.  Did you consider a Canon iPF printer, or pass due to the lack of support in Canada?  

--John

[DougMorgan]

Lack of support was definitely my major reasons to stay with Epson.   With the 8000/8100 in particular there only appear to be a few in service so there isn't much of a track record.   I've already done my share of guinea pigging.    With the 4000 my wasted ink due to clogs is about on par with your posted auto-cleaning usage so I don't know how much of difference there is there.

Doug

[John Crittenden]

Doug. I live in the Lower Mainland but I don't think the humidity is a problem. I'm going to check that out tomorrow. Right now my humidity is 50. The suggested range for these printers is 20 to 80% so I thought 50% was okay.

I will check out the auto cleaning setting as soon as I get some ink.

I don't auto-cut paper so no problems there. I agree that there isn't much difference in image quality between the #80 series and the #00s even on paper. On canvas there isn't really any that I can see. All of my work will be on canvas except for a few smaller prints that I'll probably pick up a 3800 for. I don't really want to wrestle with de-curling paper and the 7880 doesn't have a cut sheet feeder.

As for the Matte ink cartridge, I haven't used it yet. The output on canvas has been superb for me after varnishing. That's another question I have. Do any of you know of a good water-based varnish for the K3 inks on Bulldog canvas? Right now I have to admit that I'm using the same gallon of varnish that I use for my acrylic and egg tempera paintings. Works fine. In February I'll have access to a coater so this isn't really a problem long term.

I'll check out your other thread Doug.

John. I actually know a fellow in Calgary who took his Epson printer -- it was smaller format -- and hurled it as far as he could into the local dump because it was always clogging. Funny. He'd leave it sit for three weeks though and then expect it to print right away. These pigment inks don't work that way.

Doug. I did send an email to Epson support in the US a week ago about an air filter recommendation for the new inks but haven't heard anything back from them. We may well be printing quite a few hours each day when we get up to speed so an air filter of the right kind will be a necessity.

I read on a previous post that the 3800 is supposed to be almost free of clogging. But then again it uses the older K3 inks.

[John Crittenden]

Thanks to all of you. Great help. I'm done for the night but will check back tomorrow for any late replies.

[DougMorgan]

John:

I'm wondering if you have a lemon.  The only K3 inks that have changed are the magentas and the others are supposed to be identical.  They did change the cartridges though so those designed for the 7800/9800 won't fit ours BUT the new ones replace the older ones so they are backward compatible (except for magenta of course).  You should not be having anything like this kind of wastage.   The 4000 I have is more prone to clogging and I think it was like 6 months in (and the middle of a Kelowna summer) before I had my first clog that required a cleaning cycle.  Especially if you are printing daily.

Are you checking the indoors relative humidity?  With forced air it will be quite a bit lower than outdoors, of course.  I know that's asking the obvious.  I think 40-60 RH is the optimum range.

The auto cut thing with mine at least is just that if you have the printer set to roll paper no-cut then it won't load properly and will feed an extra 6 inches of paper.   If you set the printer panel to auto-cut then it loads properly.  The printer driver overrides the cutter or you can switch the panel after the roll of canvas is properly loaded.

I'm not sure which canvas you are using but the brands I use all require the matte ink and look like crap with the photo black.  If you are using a gloss canvas and then coating I think you are going to have problems getting a good look.   It may be a matter of taste but I much prefer the look of a matte canvas with any gloss in the coating or laminate.

Which brings me to the coating.   I've tried four different brands and spent many hours spraying, rolling, and brushing, to come to the conclusion that it is either way too much time and work space to apply or the results simply aren't worth it, or both.   We are now laminating all canvas at a place in Vancouver.  I can pass along the name if you want.  I don't do my own stretching anymore either -- outsourcing is the name of the game.  There's another thread from a few weeks ago that discussed various options for this.  The most interesting was using Future floor polish.

Hope you find a solution!
Doug

[canlogic]

I have had my 7880 for 2 weeks now but have only been printing on cut sheets. Mostly on Epson premium luster and the new Harman gloss. So far I have not had any clogging problems. I also have an Epson 4000 which I have had since it came to market and I have had very few problems with it. They are both in a basement room of an older house here in Montreal so maybe the humidity levels are just right for these printers.

[John Hollenberg]

I actually know a fellow in Calgary who took his Epson printer -- it was smaller format -- and hurled it as far as he could into the local dump because it was always clogging. Funny. He'd leave it sit for three weeks though and then expect it to print right away. These pigment inks don't work that way.

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They do in the Canon iPF series printers.  That is one of the strongest points of the printers.  It isn't just the amount of ink wasted, but the amount of time and hassle wasted (at least for me) with the Epson printers.  My Canon iPF5000 is always ready to print in a couple of minutes max (bringing it out of sleep it may do a check of the nozzles to see if any are clogged, and if so do a brief cleaning).  I haven't done a nozzle check in almost a year; the prints come out perfect every time.  Every time I think about buying another Epson printer I am reminded of these clogging problems, especially with infrequent use.

--John

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

With all the talk of how Epsons are always clogging, I feel I need to report on my own experience with my lowly 2200 (which I got when they first came out).

I print very sporadically. For a while a couple of years ago I was using third-party inks with excellent results (and no clogging). After one six-week trip to Italy in spring of 2006, however, the printer exhibited its first clogs. I did the head-cleaning (ink-drinking) routine a few times, then left it overnight and tried again. Byt the second day, the cleaning worked fine.

After that, I soon switched back to Epson inks (since Beluga caviar, which would have been cheaper, didn't give me very good blacks     ).

Last January and February I was away (Death Valley, etc.) for over three weeks, and the printer came right back with no clogs after the trip.

My house is fully heated, air-conditioned, humidified, and de-humidified, so the environment is pretty good for the printer. So when this one dies, I'm very likely to get another Epson (probably the 3800).

As Mark Twain might have said, "You can clog all of the Epsons some of the time, and you can clog some of the Epsons all of the time, but you can't clog all of the Epsons all of the time."  

[John Crittenden]

Doug: My humidity is 50. The suggested range on Epson's spec sheet is 20 to 80 for this printer so I'm right in the middle.

Hopefully the new inks I ordered with the printer will be in next Monday and I can get back to printing. There may be some settings I could be doing that I haven't tried, for instance the auto cleaning setting you mention.

The only colour I'm out of is Vivid Light Magenta. Vivid Magenta is about the same as Cyan and both are the least used. Photo Black is also getting low.

I'm using Bulldog Green Dot canvas. The only thing I'm not crazy about is that it's a very heavy canvas and difficult to wrap tightly around the stretcher bars. I installed Photo Black to see how it looked on both canvas and paper. I have to admit that, after varnishing, these prints look superb in my opinion. At least as good as the paintings. I am very impressed. I was hoping this was the case so I wouldn't have to switch blacks. However, hand feeding cut sheets is a very iffy situation with this printer and I've decided that it's a one-trick pony. It is a roll printer.

If this printer had been designed with a cut sheet feeder it would have been almost perfect in my opinion. The only other thing it needs is a proper guide for hand cutting the canvas as each image comes off, which you want to do when proofing. But if you run the rolls through a coater, which we will be doing soon, then that doesn't matter either.

I'd appreciate knowing where you are getting your canvases coated. If you go to my art site -- johncrittenden.com -- you will find a contact form. Either that or john@johncrittenden is fine. I get a lot of spam though and the contact form emails always make it through.

Eric: The old 2200 was a good printer. Although I never owned one I know a couple who did. I hear that the 3800 is a great printer for the money if you don't want to do rolls, and almost never clogs.

[DougMorgan]

Except that with the amount of ink you have reported using in your Canon printer is NOT really sitting unused.  It's going through enough ink to print an 8x10 or two every single day.   Unplug your printer in a dry room for a couple weeks and let's see how they compare.   The self cleaning is more convenient for folks that don't use their printer often, for sure, but let's be clear -- any ink in the waste tank is waste, unavoidable maybe, but still waste and you were reporting $500 a year in ink used for cleaning.

Doug

They do in the Canon iPF series printers.  That is one of the strongest points of the printers.  It isn't just the amount of ink wasted, but the amount of time and hassle wasted (at least for me) with the Epson printers.  My Canon iPF5000 is always ready to print in a couple of minutes max (bringing it out of sleep it may do a check of the nozzles to see if any are clogged, and if so do a brief cleaning).  I haven't done a nozzle check in almost a year; the prints come out perfect every time.  Every time I think about buying another Epson printer I am reminded of these clogging problems, especially with infrequent use.

--John
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[DougMorgan]

John:  

I sent you a PM with the lamination details as well as some suggestions for ink sources.   I also thought I'd suggest directdial.com but it looks like they have matte black on hand in Canada and not photo.   Last week they were supposed to send me one of the matte carts but sent the one for the 9800 which is useless.

A sheet feeder is a mixed blessing and doesn't usually work for art papers anyway.  The problem is that any sheet feeder requires an HP-flip of the media.  An upper paper holder like the 2200 would need to be enormous to handle 17x22 and larger sizes and would most likely just get in the way.    

Personally I find that the 9880 is very good with sheet material and loading heavy art papers is a breeze compared to the 4000.  With the vertical path no room is required behind the printer.    I don't miss the sheet feeder with the 9880 and even with the 4000 nearly everything I sell comes from a roll.    Nozzle checks and my wife's recipes are about all that gets printed on individual sheets.

You can get an externaly cutter for the canvas but I find just taking a razor blade and using the metal exit guide as a straight edge works great.    Note that you can also set the printer driver to print a line at the cutting point if that makes it easier.

Doug

 

Doug: My humidity is 50. The suggested range on Epson's spec sheet is 20 to 80 for this printer so I'm right in the middle.

Hopefully the new inks I ordered with the printer will be in next Monday and I can get back to printing. There may be some settings I could be doing that I haven't tried, for instance the auto cleaning setting you mention.

The only colour I'm out of is Vivid Light Magenta. Vivid Magenta is about the same as Cyan and both are the least used. Photo Black is also getting low.

I'm using Bulldog Green Dot canvas. The only thing I'm not crazy about is that it's a very heavy canvas and difficult to wrap tightly around the stretcher bars. I installed Photo Black to see how it looked on both canvas and paper. I have to admit that, after varnishing, these prints look superb in my opinion. At least as good as the paintings. I am very impressed. I was hoping this was the case so I wouldn't have to switch blacks. However, hand feeding cut sheets is a very iffy situation with this printer and I've decided that it's a one-trick pony. It is a roll printer.

If this printer had been designed with a cut sheet feeder it would have been almost perfect in my opinion. The only other thing it needs is a proper guide for hand cutting the canvas as each image comes off, which you want to do when proofing. But if you run the rolls through a coater, which we will be doing soon, then that doesn't matter either.

I'd appreciate knowing where you are getting your canvases coated. If you go to my art site -- johncrittenden.com -- you will find a contact form. Either that or john@johncrittenden is fine. I get a lot of spam though and the contact form emails always make it through.

Eric: The old 2200 was a good printer. Although I never owned one I know a couple who did. I hear that the 3800 is a great printer for the money if you don't want to do rolls, and almost never clogs.
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[DougMorgan]

John:

Directdial.com DOES have the light magenta in Richmond.  Give them a call and have them hold it for you -- you could be printing today.  

http://www.directdial.com/T603600.html

Sorry to keep adding posts but I misread yours to say you were out of black.   Now no one else should go and snap this up I hope -- wait your turn  

Doug

[John Crittenden]

Doug: Just replying now to your PM.

I'd use the sheet feeder for things like posters and special presentation material. I don't need many of those and they can be printed on any stock. I will probably pick up the 3800 for this.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Eric: The old 2200 was a good printer. Although I never owned one I know a couple who did. I hear that the 3800 is a great printer for the money if you don't want to do rolls, and almost never clogs.
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My 2200 still is a good printer.  

I just had a problem that almost gave me an excuse to junk it and go for the 3800. But not yet. My 2200 wouldn't pull in a single sheet through the paper feeder. I tried several times, blew out the feeder slot with canned air, and tried different papers, but to no avail. Then I googled "Epson 2200 won't feed paper" and found links to a couple of discussions of the problem and how to clean the intake rollers with rubbing alcohol.

I tried the cleaning trick, and it now works like new. Since I have never cleaned the intake rollers in about five years, I'm impressed. It just keeps going and going and ...

I hope it turns out that your 7880 is just a bad unit and that you get the clogging resolved without too much more pain.

Eric

[fike]

No clogs here on my 7880, but I have only put 15' of 17" paper through it.  I did have one borderless image with some overspray smudging on the white cut ends of the print, but it didn't have any affect on the print area.

[John Crittenden]

EricM: Yes, the 2200 is still a very good printer. Isn't Google great? The Internet is such a gift and so far it's still basically free from government control.

I'll work out the problems with the 7880. When I posted on this string I was plumb tuckered out and a bit confused and perhaps disappointed but, after talking to all you guys, I'm now thinking that I can get it working fine once I get my order of ink. I'm sure that Epson will replace the model before next fall. At that time I may either sell it or keep it in my studio for proofing and go with third party inks.

In the meantime if this is indeed a lemon unit then Epson will replace it.