Sinar e75 Hy6 vs MKII, some pics!

[favalim]

Today a Sinar rep. come to my studio to show me the Sinar Hy6 with e75LV.
I mainly shoot studio interiors (furniture basically) for catalogs. I compared it with my actual tool: 1Ds MKII. Obviosly there's no competition in terms of details: aonother world!
As Thierry (thsinar) said the nominal ISO of the e75 is very conservative: it's almost 1 stop more sensitive respect what the light meter says. We took this shot with studio flash at f11 but 50 ISO with e75 and 100 ISO the MKII: he only had to pull +0,2 the e75 raw file in order to have a similar exposition. He develpped the raw file with no curve ("linear" staright from the camera) and this caused me disorientetion as it appeared to be vey flat whan it arrives in Photoshop; I've been spoiled with MKII files wich came out almost "finished" from C1 and "standard film" curve so I also developed the canon file "linear" and I matched the files with curves in order to have a similar values for white and black in the Gretag chart.
As you can see from the second detail even at 50 ISO the e75 shows lot of noise, more than I expected. I've been a little disappointed by this fact, for what they ask (25000 €) I tought better. I'll give the files to the cmyk guys in order to have a final response once they're on the paper ... and I'll have to give Leaf a try as well  

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[Graham Mitchell]

It's hard for us to know what's noise and what's texture without having seen the scene in real life.

Also, just wanted to confirm that you exported the e75 file in 16 bit, uncompressed?

[Dustbak]

If you look at the white floor, the e75 file  shows the detail in the wood, the Canon file makes a total mess from that.

Indeed the shadow part could be noise but also part detail hard to tell if we weren't there (as Graham mentioned). Anyway pulling up shadow has always served me with added noise in shadow parts. I suppose this can be the case here.

Multishot files are a very efficient tool to deal with that I am currently finding out.

[favalim]

Here it is a clearer example of noise. I know it's an hard test as it's a black pice of wood and few light but .. for the price I thiught better in terms of noise; for the rest it's great!

It's hard for us to know what's noise and what's texture without having seen the scene in real life.

Also, just wanted to confirm that you exported the e75 file in 16 bit, uncompressed?
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[favalim]

I'm sure ther's no detail in that side of the furniture: the wood texture
has been covered by the black finishing of the furniture

...
Indeed the shadow part could be noise but also part detail hard to tell if we weren't there (as Graham mentioned). ...

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[pixjohn]

I am not sure if it's noise or thecanon  blurs the image? The Sinar blows the canon away with detail.  I shoot with Leaf and love the detail over canon.

[samuel_js]

Here it is a clearer example of noise. I know it's an hard test as it's a black pice of wood and few light but .. for the price I thiught better in terms of noise; for the rest it's great!
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The e75 is very superior in every aspect but the noise. I thinks is actually very strange, at ISO 50?. The noise pattern looks like the centerfold noise problems.  

[Morgan_Moore]

I am not sure if it's noise or thecanon  blurs the image? The Sinar blows the canon away with detail.  I shoot with Leaf and love the detail over canon.
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My experience of tests is that they are very very hard to do

getting these images and downressing the sinar to the canon size the canon needs a mass of sharpening to get near the deatail of the sinar at which point the canon starts to gain some horrible noise and jaggies

One wonders if (and I dont want to start this war again) but it was right to give the sinar one stop less exposure

Was the sinar exposed fully to the right ?

The white patch of the sinar file is a bit darker than the canon indicating comparitavly less exposure

Also in this conrolled studio environment one could suggest that more fill light would help ie a different ratio of lighting may be more suitable for the sinar

(I actually usually kick the toe of my curve down - noise killing dont process out 'flat')

I would conclude two things

-Sinar are not strong in the shadows and need a lot of light - particlarly shadow fill

-Only weeks of shooting with a particular camera will extract the best from it

S

[thsinar]

hi Samuel,

what's that, the "centerfold noise problem"?!

There is no centerfold problem with any Sinarback: this problem has been solved right 2 months after the introduction on the eMotion 75 (in July 2006) with the integration of the code from Stefan Hess' "Brumbaer eMotion DNG Converter".

Best regards,
Thierry

The e75 is very superior in every aspect but the noise. I thinks is actually very strange, at ISO 50?. The noise pattern looks like the centerfold noise problems. 
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[thsinar]

That's what I am thinking as well.

Best regards,
Thierry

My experience of tests is that they are very very hard to do

One wonders if (and I dont want to start this war again) but it was right to give the sinar one stop less exposure

Was the sinar exposed fully to the right ?

The white patch of the sinar file is a bit darker than the canon indicating comparitavly less exposure

S
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[Christopher]

That's what I am thinking as well.

Best regards,
Thierry
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Just find it amasing how extremly well the Mk2 hold up. Sure there is a big difference, but sometimes not as much as you might think.

[paul_jones]

i have used the canon along side a p25and p45 quite a bit. the canon file can be a strange beast. when i have shot cars, with good contrast, the canon can be amazingy sharp. not far off the the p45 in some situations. but when it comes to softer tones, like a shot of a face, or wood texture, the canon lags far behind. like in these examples, the texture on the wall beside the picture, the sinar blows the canon away. a lond time ago, i posted on here a canon pic side by side with a p45 pic of a fence (good contrast), and the canon file wasnt too far away from the p45. the funny thing, is that i made a mistake with the iso of the canon and had it on 500, and it still looked good.
but there are times that im really unhappy with the canon.
so it isnt so easy to compare.

paul

[samuel_js]

hi Samuel,

what's that, the "centerfold noise problem"?!

There is no centerfold problem with any Sinarback: this problem has been solved right 2 months after the introduction on the eMotion 75 (in July 2006) with the integration of the code from Stefan Hess' "Brumbaer eMotion DNG Converter".

Best regards,
Thierry
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Thierry, I'm not saying that's the problem, just that the noise looks like that centerfold noise. I know that was fixed.  

[thsinar]

Samuel,

There exists no "centerfold noise"! The centerfold effect is something different than noise and vice-versa: that's what I mean. Cf. to the numerous explanations here on LL during the period of last Photokina and the months thereafter.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry, I'm not saying that's the problem, just that the noise looks like that centerfold noise. I know that was fixed. 
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[rethmeier]

I did some test last year, before I purchased my e-75 at the Sinar dealer here in Sydney.
One of the test was a shot with a lot of shadows(going into black)
I was amazed that I could see no noise at all.
Maybe I did it the right way?  

We also compared the e-75 against the Aptus -75 and a  Phase P-45.

For me the color rendering was the most accurate with the Sinar e-75.

The other reason for me to purchase the Sinar was that I was told about the Hy6.

Cheers,
Willem.

[favalim]

I did some test last year, before I purchased my e-75 at the Sinar dealer here in Sydney.
One of the test was a shot with a lot of shadows(going into black)
I was amazed that I could see no noise at all.
Maybe I did it the right way?  

We also compared the e-75 against the Aptus -75 and a  Phase P-45.

For me the color rendering was the most accurate with the Sinar e-75.

The other reason for me to purchase the Sinar was that I was told about the Hy6.

Cheers,
Willem.
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Willem, how did you see the files? I mean, did you look at the "linear" file opened in PS or did you applied a one of the Sinar software curves? I ask you this because when the linear file was opened in PS I absolutley had to apply a curve otherwise the shot was useless. Once the file was opened and I applied the curve the noise came up. If I didn't pull the curve there was non noise but there was no fun in the picture

[Graham Mitchell]

Once the file was opened and I applied the curve the noise came up. If I didn't pull the curve there was non noise but there was no fun in the picture
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That's why I asked if you exported the file as 8 bit or 16 bit. If you are applying a curve to a linear file it should definitely be 16 bit.

It would also be a good idea for you to export a TIFF from Captureshop to see the results you would actually get from the system.

[favalim]

That's why I asked if you exported the file as 8 bit or 16 bit. If you are applying a curve to a linear file it should definitely be 16 bit.

It would also be a good idea for you to export a TIFF from Captureshop to see the results you would actually get from the system.
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Of course it was a 16 bit TIFF  file exported from Captureshop.