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Author Topic: Softproofing with my Epson 3800  (Read 7385 times)

Photolandscape

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« on: November 10, 2007, 11:31:59 am »

I know softproofing can be a good way to preview files I am about to print. I have tried it on my Epson 4000 and now on my Epson 3800. When I go to preview the image just prior to printing, the image--before or after I check the  "soft proof" box--looks very blown out and weak and way, way out of balance. Any suggestions on what might be causing this? I'd like to use soft proofing, but so far, it has proven useless.
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madmanchan

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 11:43:58 am »

And which profile are you using to Soft Proof? Did you check black point compensation? Did you make sure that Preserve RGB numbers is unchecked?
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Eric Chan

francois

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2007, 12:02:06 pm »

Quote
I know softproofing can be a good way to preview files I am about to print. I have tried it on my Epson 4000 and now on my Epson 3800. When I go to preview the image just prior to printing, the image--before or after I check theĀ  "soft proof" box--looks very blown out and weak and way, way out of balance. Any suggestions on what might be causing this? I'd like to use soft proofing, but so far, it has proven useless.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151730\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Have you seen Michael & Jeff's Camera to Print chapter (14?) on soft proofing?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 12:02:20 pm by francois »
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Francois

Photolandscape

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2007, 07:26:10 pm »

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And which profile are you using to Soft Proof? Did you check black point compensation? Did you make sure that Preserve RGB numbers is unchecked?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151736\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the response, and good questions. My answer would be--I have no idea what, if any profile I am using to soft proof. I did check black point compensation, so should be fine there. Where does one make sure that "preserve RGB numbers" is unchecked? Thanks.
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Wayne Fox

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2007, 11:05:46 pm »

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Thanks for the response, and good questions. My answer would be--I have no idea what, if any profile I am using to soft proof. I did check black point compensation, so should be fine there. Where does one make sure that "preserve RGB numbers" is unchecked? Thanks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151836\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Are you just using the default profile?

You should probably study up on soft proofing then, since the key to it is to set it up using your intended output profile.

The video mentioned is very good.  I also know Andrew has a good article on setting it up on his site, digitaldog.net, in the tips section.  Check that out.
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Mark D Segal

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2007, 07:18:40 pm »

Quote
Thanks for the response, and good questions. My answer would be--I have no idea what, if any profile I am using to soft proof. I did check black point compensation, so should be fine there. Where does one make sure that "preserve RGB numbers" is unchecked? Thanks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151836\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

To make a long story short you MUST use the same profile in softproof that you have selected in Photoshop Print with Preview or Photoshop Print if you are in CS3, and you MUST use the profile meant for the paper and printer you are using, and if you are letting Photoshop manage the colour, you MUST have Printer Color Management OFF in the printer driver. If you do not have these three things right and consistent you are flying blind and all bets are off.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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picnic

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2007, 09:07:13 pm »

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To make a long story short you MUST use the same profile in softproof that you have selected in Photoshop Print with Preview or Photoshop Print if you are in CS3, and you MUST use the profile meant for the paper and printer you are using, and if you are letting Photoshop manage the colour, you MUST have Printer Color Management OFF in the printer driver. If you do not have these three things right and consistent you are flying blind and all bets are off.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152030\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, and then you usually have to do some things (layers, etc.) to compensate--IOW, to make your softproofed file look like the file you have just processed.  What you are seeing, more or less, is how that file will print on that paper--assuming you are using the same profile, etc.  It usually will NOT print the same so you have to adjust the file to be printed.  I duplicate the files, compare and then adjust the softproofed file to the original.  I don't touch the original because I may want to print it with other paper/profile, etc.  

The Camera to Print video is  helpful in this and I can recommend it.  I haven't seen Andrew's article on it, but I'm sure its great also.  Once you get it--its very helpful--usually people just don't understand how its meant to be used (softproofing, that is).

Diane
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Mark D Segal

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2007, 09:12:50 pm »

Hi Diane,

There are different ways of doing it of course. One approach that saves megabytes is to have just one file and an adjustment layer (usually curves is the best) custom-adjusted under soft-proof with the relevant profile. When you repurpose the file, just amend the curve, or add another one for the next condition and turn the previous one off.

Mark
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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duraace

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2007, 12:22:20 pm »

I know you're all talking about printing through Photoshop, but I use Lightroom, so am I correct in assuming that "soft proofing" is NOT available in LR?  I too noticed that if I'm supplying a paper profile from LR to the Epson 3800 driver with LR managing printing and not the driver, preview looks all washed out and with bad colors too.  The print, however, comes out looking very good, so I just ignore the preview look, but it would be nice if the preview reflected the look of the final print.  Am I missing something?  Using LR under OS X.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 12:22:35 pm by duraace »
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rdonson

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2007, 01:07:17 pm »

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I know you're all talking about printing through Photoshop, but I use Lightroom, so am I correct in assuming that "soft proofing" is NOT available in LR?  I too noticed that if I'm supplying a paper profile from LR to the Epson 3800 driver with LR managing printing and not the driver, preview looks all washed out and with bad colors too.  The print, however, comes out looking very good, so I just ignore the preview look, but it would be nice if the preview reflected the look of the final print.  Am I missing something?  Using LR under OS X.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152139\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Lightroom does not offer softproofing.  Its currently a major shortcoming in the product, especially since they have a print module.  I'm sure that they'll address this in some future release though.  

In the meantime the best bet is to probably let the printer manage color in the driver although someone may disagree.
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Regards,
Ron

Mark D Segal

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2007, 01:27:40 pm »

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Lightroom does not offer softproofing.  Its currently a major shortcoming in the product, especially since they have a print module.  I'm sure that they'll address this in some future release though. 

In the meantime the best bet is to probably let the printer manage color in the driver although someone may disagree.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152149\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I disagree. to ensure the best match between what you want and what you get, it's best to export the image to Photoshop, do the final adjustments under soft-proof and print from Photoshop with Photoshop managing colours.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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madmanchan

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2007, 04:29:25 pm »

Or you can do the output-dependent adjustments in PS (using soft proofing as a guide) and then print the final image from LR with LR managing the color (and using the same printer profile as used for soft-proofing in PS). Just don't compare the print with what you see in LR.
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Eric Chan

Mark D Segal

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2007, 04:43:18 pm »

Yeah I thought of that Eric, but didn't mention it because it's not necessarily important making the trip back to Lightroom for printing, unless there is some reason - such as Lightroom's print layout features or whatever. Of course I suppose the image would have to be brought back to LR anyhow for having the most recent adjustments stored as part of the file in the LR database? The ultimate solution everyone is hoping for both in Lightroom and Camera Raw is of course a soft-proofing capability. It's probably not that easy to code - one wonders.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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rdonson

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2007, 04:50:13 pm »

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Yes, I disagree. to ensure the best match between what you want and what you get, it's best to export the image to Photoshop, do the final adjustments under soft-proof and print from Photoshop with Photoshop managing colours.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152157\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Absolutely, I was assuming he wanted to stay in Lightroom.
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Regards,
Ron

Mark D Segal

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2007, 04:55:55 pm »

OK, it's a reasonable assumption, but under the circumstances probably not that reasonable a workflow!    Depends whether one puts quality ahead of convenience or vice-versa.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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rdonson

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2007, 07:57:31 pm »

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OK, it's a reasonable assumption, but under the circumstances probably not that reasonable a workflow!    Depends whether one puts quality ahead of convenience or vice-versa.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For sure.... the interesting thing is that softproofing is just coming to the consciousness of most people.  I suspect that Jeff Schewe's articles over the last few years and the hugely popular video with Michael are largely responsible.   That and the abundance of really good printers and papers to choose from.

Softproofing was certainly the black hole of color management for me.  I do hope that Adobe puts some real thought behind making it easy in future releases and that its part of John Nacks UI overhaul plans for the Photoshop family.
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Ron

duraace

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2007, 12:55:08 pm »

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For sure.... the interesting thing is that softproofing is just coming to the consciousness of most people.  I suspect that Jeff Schewe's articles over the last few years and the hugely popular video
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152267\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Is there any value to using the "Preview" option in the print driver at print time?  My Epson Pro 3800 offers this and it appears the image in preview is the same as in LR.  The LR managed output using a profile also matches pretty closely what I see in LR coming out of this printer, btw.
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Mark D Segal

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2007, 01:43:57 pm »

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Is there any value to using the "Preview" option in the print driver at print time?  My Epson Pro 3800 offers this and it appears the image in preview is the same as in LR.  The LR managed output using a profile also matches pretty closely what I see in LR coming out of this printer, btw.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=155004\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It depends. I always laevae it active as a final check before actual printing to make sure the orientation and centering of the image are correct. On a Windows OS it is useless for anything else because it is not colour-managed; I believe with Mac it is colour-managed, but not certain.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Carl Harsch

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Softproofing with my Epson 3800
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2007, 08:19:53 pm »

Clarify please....

I have a duplicated copy to compare the softproof with my edited file

I select the appropriate paper profile

Preserve RGB numbers left unchecked

Select either Relative Colorimetric or Perceptual for Rendering Intent

Black point compensation is checked

For the display options, should I have one of these checked or unchecked when making fine tuning corrections to the soft proofed file?  I'm a bit confused with this area.  With some images, there is a drastic change here, mainly in contrast (as expected due to the differences between paper and monitor).  So, if someone can talk about this particular aspect of getting the print ready to print, it would be most appreciated.

Edit....never mind... I think I got the answer on another thread.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 08:31:10 pm by Carl Harsch »
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