The 64 thousand dollar question!

[marcmccalmont]

I am planning on purchasing a MFDB for my Mamiya AFD II. I am on a budget but don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish so..... for landscape and nature which would you buy and why. Mamiya ZD back; $6900(new), or Aptus 22 $10,500(demo) or Phase P30 $12,500(demo)?

Image quality is most important, #1 dynamic range, #2 color, #3 resolution

I'm trying to make a step up from my 5D which I find the dynamic range more limiting than anything else here in Hawaii.

I don't have a dealer in the area to do a personal comparison so your help is appreciated.

Thanks
Marc

[Wayne Fox]

I am planning on purchasing a MFDB for my Mamiya AFD II. I am on a budget but don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish so..... for landscape and nature which would you buy and why. Mamiya ZD back; $6900(new), or Aptus 22 $10,500(demo) or Phase P30 $12,500(demo)?

Image quality is most important, #1 dynamic range, #2 color, #3 resolution

I'm trying to make a step up from my 5D which I find the dynamic range more limiting than anything else here in Hawaii.

I don't have a dealer in the area to do a personal comparison so your help is appreciated.

Thanks
Marc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151679\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would recommend the Phase, based on your choice of subject and body preference, and personal experience with now my third Phase back (P25 upgraded to P45 upgraded to P45+).

[jonstewart]

I like my Phase (P45), have no experience of the others, but believe you wouldn't go wrong with the Leaf either.

[mcfoto]

Hi
Given the price difference I would go for the Aptus 22, the new software is excellent. Leaf have been doing this for a long time & if I had to buy a another back it would be the Aptus 22. I still like the ZD camera & prefer it for out side because it is smaller & really feels like a DSLR. But for studio work I prefer the Aptus 22.

[narikin]

I'd do Phase, for many reasons, not worth going into here, but suffice to say they appear to be tying something up with Mamiya, so if you know and like that system, then you're on the road already.

I'm on my second Phase back. no problems whatsoever to report after 3 years.

be sure to negotiate around a LOT. you can probably get far better deals than you are being offered, if you haggle with various dealers. both mine came from Capture Integration, who are excellent.

good luck

[Snook]

I am in the same boat as you and leaning towards the Aptus 22.. For various reasons, but Being a couple thousand less than the P30 also helps..:+}
Just waiting for the best price and I am buying...:+}
Good luck on your decision they are both fine Backs!!
Snook

[rainer_v]

so everybody tell you to buy what he owns. normal,- but not very usefull i think.
what kind of photos do you take? landscape?people?fashion? i think this is the first think we should know to advise something.

[bcroslin]

I would go with the Aptuss 22. I own the ZD back and the image quality arguably is in the ballpark with the Aptus but the Aptus has a larger buffer, lossless compression, an LCD that actually works and LC 11.

The only issue is finding an Aptus for $10k - they seem to be a rare beast these days.

[Dustbak]

I have used 3 brands now and believe all can be made to work, the differences are in the details. Which can be important in some cases, if not I would go for the one I could get cheapest.

When you need higher ISO or long exposure the P30 is the way to go. When you need to also use it on viewlike cameras with movements the A22 would probably be a better choice.

The LCD of the Aptus outside is hardly visible. The best thing about the LCD on the A22 (or A17 in my case) I find are: the excellent histogram and exposure indication & the ease of tapping whitepoint (non are absolutely necessary but very pleasant in use). I also liked the built-quality of the Aptus (in comparison with my Hasselblad CF back).

[olaf]

Hi Marc
Are you actually going to be able to try both these backs? I did and found that Phase has a very basic, simple set of controls, almost a minimalist approach. Leaf seemed to offer far more LCD functionality. For example; pre shoot file naming, job folders, metadata, file annotations....etc.
For me I preferred the very quick and easy 4 button approach of Phase so I bought a Mamiya 645 AFD2 and a P30+. But everyone's workflow is personal and you may find the Leaf more suitable.

Quality wise I found it hard to tell the difference. They were both excellent and minor differences could have been due to a host of factors such as processing, lenses.... etc. I can't comment on the ZD but I'm very happy with my AFD2/P30+

Finally,wait for the rest of November before making a choice. Phase is due to make an announcement about future plans. Although as Jon says I'm sure you won't go wrong with either. Also check Michael's excellent article on MFDB's which underlines the importance of your dealer relationship. Regards

Olaf

[H1/A75 Guy]

so everybody tell you to buy what he owns. normal,- but not very usefull i think.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151710\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Buy the P30.

[david o]

think at the crop. The P30 as smaller sensor.
ZD and Aptus 22 are 48x36.
Makes difference if you shoot wide.

[Morgan_Moore]

so everybody tell you to buy what he owns. normal,- but not very usefull i think. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151710\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My list (I do have one of them)

Mega budget landscapes.

5d and stitching rig

Slow shooting in good light on a budget.

Mamya back

Generally good light, more pressure and solidity possiblity of easy mount change easy handling of shifts

Sinar 54LV

Fashion + portraits, up to 400 handhelfd use

P30

Long exposrues and mega quality

P45

Shifts and Megaquality

Sinar 75

Any general phtography including a need for a very wide, decent flash synch and AF - good allround performance

Hassy H3x

Would be my summary

Leaf is off this list IMO becuase simlar price/quality to sinar products but no easy mount change or built in memory but basically interchangeble with 54LV subject to price/dealer  considerations


SMM

[marcwilson]

I am planning on purchasing a MFDB for my Mamiya AFD II. I am on a budget but don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish so..... for landscape and nature...
I'm trying to make a step up from my 5D which I find the dynamic range more limiting than anything else here in Hawaii.Thanks
Marc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151679\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Are any mfdb's of this level going to be right for landscape work if the most important thing is...as you say...image quality?...not to mention the lens factor crop (excepting the zd back of course) if you like wide angles...sorry if that sounds negative but just wanted to bring it up!

Marc (not the o.p.!)

[marcmccalmont]

Are any mfdb's of this level going to be right for landscape work if the most important thing is...as you say...image quality?...not to mention the lens factor crop (excepting the zd back of course) if you like wide angles...sorry if that sounds negative but just wanted to bring it up!

Marc (not the o.p.!)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151756\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Marc

Right now I'm using a 5D and stitching panos so if with a 22Mpix MFDB that has 12 stops of dynamic range I'm hoping to to do the same with a bit more resolution but a lot more dynamic range. I'm usually disapointed with the resolution of a single 5D shot and too many nice sunsets/sunrises not to capture them at there best. An example of a single 5D shot that I would like to do better with a MFDB

unfortunately I convert into Dcam3 color space and a lot of color is lost when converted into an adobe rgb jpeg but you can get the idea.

Marc

[attachment=3791:attachment]

[Snook]

My list (I do have one of them)

Mega budget landscapes.

5d and stitching rig

Slow shooting in good light on a budget.

Mamya back

Generally good light, more pressure and solidity possiblity of easy mount change easy handling of shifts

Sinar 54LV

Fashion + portraits, up to 400 handhelfd use

P30

Long exposrues and mega quality

P45

Shifts and Megaquality

Sinar 75

Any general phtography including a need for a very wide, decent flash synch and AF - good allround performance

Hassy H3x

Would be my summary

Leaf is off this list IMO becuase simlar price/quality to sinar products but no easy mount change or built in memory but basically interchangeble with 54LV subject to price/dealer  considerations
SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151745\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Morgan.. what Sinars are equal to the Aptus 22??
And what built in memory are you speaking of.. You lost me a little there.?
Thanks for an explanation.
From my research the P30 and Aptus 22 are about the best bang for the buc...:+}
Snook

[mcfoto]

Marc

Right now I'm using a 5D and stitching panos so if with a 22Mpix MFDB that has 12 stops of dynamic range I'm hoping to to do the same with a bit more resolution but a lot more dynamic range. I'm usually disapointed with the resolution of a single 5D shot and too many nice sunsets/sunrises not to capture them at there best. An example of a single 5D shot that I would like to do better with a MFDB

unfortunately I convert into Dcam3 color space and a lot of color is lost when converted into an adobe rgb jpeg but you can get the idea.

Marc

[attachment=3791:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151785\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi
I shoot a LOT of clouds, sunsets due to where we live, We have a great outlook. I used to shoot on the 5D until I got the ZD camera. The DR with the ZD is so much better that the 5D that I rarely use the 5D for that purpose anymore. Chip size is important to us so I would go either with the ZD or Aptus 22. You also have to think of start up time. with the ZD camera it is about one second. with the Aptus 22 I think it is around 10-15 seconds? If you are shooting landscapes the larger chip size is a must as you need wide lenses. Start up time would be an issue for me too. For example when I see clouds I like ,I grab the ZD turn it on & shoot. If there was a lag time of 10-15 seconds that would drive me nuts. Higher iso just shoot with the 5D. Most of my shooting is at iso 50 as there is plenty of light. With the ZD you can capture RAW/jpeg. The reason I am bringing this up is you can buy a viewer Epson, Canon etc. Download the card into the viewer & scroll through your images (jpeg) that way if you are concerned about the screen size. I rarely look at my screen anymore both with the ZD & 5D. This also saves on battery life & most important you are taking pictures. I am so confident with the ZD camera now that the screen is not that important to me anymore. The camera is set on P ,AWB & AF, I just point and shoot. I find the metering excellent. This has been my experience so far. Studio I still prefer the Aptus 22.

[canmiya]

Morgan.. what Sinars are equal to the Aptus 22??
And what built in memory are you speaking of.. You lost me a little there.?
Thanks for an explanation.
From my research the P30 and Aptus 22 are about the best bang for the buc...:+}
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151809\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

not morgan, but i'll take a stab at it:  the equivalent of the aptus 22 is the emotion 22....in addition to being able to shoot to a card, the emotions have a built in hard drive:  i know the e-75 has a 6 gig drive built in..i think the e22 has somewhere between  2 and 4 gigs of built in memory.

[marcmccalmont]

Part of my thought process is that if I went for the ZD the difference in price would fund other lenses etc. If the IQ of the ZD is not that far off I'm leaning in that direction. Unless a P30 shows up on ebay for under 10K!
Marc

[marcwilson]

Part of my thought process is that if I went for the ZD the difference in price would fund other lenses etc. If the IQ of the ZD is not that far off I'm leaning in that direction. Unless a P30 shows up on ebay for under 10K!
Marc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151816\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The full size sensor of the zd will be a really important issue for landscapes as I assume you shoot with wide angles.
As you say the price of the zd (back or even zd camera) means you cand spend the money on the best glass so with the mamiya cameras you can also use zeiss hasselblad glass if you like that.
I think for landscapes you have the luxury of giving the digital sensor the best chance to shine with gtripod, mirror up, the best glass you can get, etc.

Good luck with it all.