H3D-39 vs V system and P30

[pflower]

I have been using a V system Hasselblad for some 18 years very happily shooting film.  Mostly landscape and some slow, considered portraits.  So I don't need a speedy autofocus DSLR that can shoot 30 fps with 300 autofocus points.  I also have a D2x which is fine but I do like the Hasselblad.

As prices drop I have been considering a digital back.  In particular a refurbished P30 is now £6,500 which is very attractive.  I now notice that Hasselblad (more accurately the Pro Centre in London) are selling ex-rental H3D-39s for £9,000 or so.

At a pinch (alright more than a pinch) I could possibly go that far.  My initial thought was that I could buy an adapter for my existing CF lenses (50mm, 80 and 120 Macro) and live with the manual focusing.  Alternatively sell them (now or in the future) and put them towards a 55-110 zoom of which I hear good things.  Age is catching up with me and focusing manually becomes more difficult but OK with the WLF on the 503 but one day I know that auto-focus would be a plus.

Now I know the arguments that have been raging about the closed system that Hasselblad have nw introduced.  I am not sure that really affects me.  In 18 years I haven't particularly felt the need to change my V system.  Having played with a P30 I can see that I could be happy with that quality for the foreseeable future. But am I going to continue to be happy with my manual focus V system, slipping glasses off to focus, back on again to see what I am doing and so on?  There is a temptation to consider the H3D-39 - but I need to be sure that I can live with it for another 18 years - OK - 5 or 6 is good enough.

Strangely I can find no detailed review/consideration of the quality of the H3D and other matters.  Anyone got any links or comments on this?  I know I am going to have to go and rent and play with one but interested in any first hand experience.

Thanks

[Morgan_Moore]

I have been using a V system Hasselblad for some 18 years very happily shooting film.  Mostly landscape and some slow, considered portraits.  So I don't need a speedy autofocus DSLR that can shoot 30 fps with 300 autofocus points.  I also have a D2x which is fine but I do like the Hasselblad.

As prices drop I have been considering a digital back.  In particular a refurbished P30 is now £6,500 which is very attractive.  I now notice that Hasselblad (more accurately the Pro Centre in London) are selling ex-rental H3D-39s for £9,000 or so.

At a pinch (alright more than a pinch) I could possibly go that far.  My initial thought was that I could buy an adapter for my existing CF lenses (50mm, 80 and 120 Macro) and live with the manual focusing.  Alternatively sell them (now or in the future) and put them towards a 55-110 zoom of which I hear good things.  Age is catching up with me and focusing manually becomes more difficult but OK with the WLF on the 503 but one day I know that auto-focus would be a plus.

Now I know the arguments that have been raging about the closed system that Hasselblad have nw introduced.  I am not sure that really affects me.  In 18 years I haven't particularly felt the need to change my V system.  Having played with a P30 I can see that I could be happy with that quality for the foreseeable future. But am I going to continue to be happy with my manual focus V system, slipping glasses off to focus, back on again to see what I am doing and so on?  There is a temptation to consider the H3D-39 - but I need to be sure that I can live with it for another 18 years - OK - 5 or 6 is good enough.

Strangely I can find no detailed review/consideration of the quality of the H3D and other matters.  Anyone got any links or comments on this?  I know I am going to have to go and rent and play with one but interested in any first hand experience.

Thanks
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My ten minutes on a Vseries is that the viewing experience is like looking through gravel compared to the H1(which I own)

Combine that with no AF and I wouldnt be confident of getting anything sharp at less than f8/11 - I like f4

ALsd the p30 is not square so how do you take an upright on a V series (I dont know maybe there is a rotating back)

You could get a used P30 and H1 which should be cheaper than a H3D39 even though you will be closed from an up0grade path you probably wont need

In terms of reviews I dont think modern MF cameras really need them - they are all excellent excluding the odd foible which is generally exposed here on this board

Good luck with your choice - self testing is the best method and a non hurried dealer

S

[rsmphoto]

I have been using a V system Hasselblad for some 18 years very happily shooting film.  Mostly landscape and some slow, considered portraits.  So I don't need a speedy autofocus DSLR that can shoot 30 fps with 300 autofocus points.  I also have a D2x which is fine but I do like the Hasselblad.

As prices drop I have been considering a digital back.  In particular a refurbished P30 is now £6,500 which is very attractive.  I now notice that Hasselblad (more accurately the Pro Centre in London) are selling ex-rental H3D-39s for £9,000 or so.

At a pinch (alright more than a pinch) I could possibly go that far.  My initial thought was that I could buy an adapter for my existing CF lenses (50mm, 80 and 120 Macro) and live with the manual focusing.  Alternatively sell them (now or in the future) and put them towards a 55-110 zoom of which I hear good things.  Age is catching up with me and focusing manually becomes more difficult but OK with the WLF on the 503 but one day I know that auto-focus would be a plus.

Now I know the arguments that have been raging about the closed system that Hasselblad have nw introduced.  I am not sure that really affects me.  In 18 years I haven't particularly felt the need to change my V system.  Having played with a P30 I can see that I could be happy with that quality for the foreseeable future. But am I going to continue to be happy with my manual focus V system, slipping glasses off to focus, back on again to see what I am doing and so on?  There is a temptation to consider the H3D-39 - but I need to be sure that I can live with it for another 18 years - OK - 5 or 6 is good enough.

Strangely I can find no detailed review/consideration of the quality of the H3D and other matters.  Anyone got any links or comments on this?  I know I am going to have to go and rent and play with one but interested in any first hand experience.

Thanks
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I'm in agreement with Sam, it's all hair-splitting with these cameras - they both do a fine job, but would add that you do some test shots with each to get a sense of the individual look of the files, and to check the software out with these as well to see which you feel most comfortable using.  Bear in mind that Hasselblad is about to release a new updated version of their software called Phocus (new GUI) - beta due out this month supposedly.

Richard

[Gary Yeowell]

For the last 2 years i have been using a 'V' Blad with a P20 and 40/60/100/180 lenses, most of the time the thing is bolted to a tripod, even though i am a travel shooter, much of the time i used wide apertures, f3.5-f4 and i can assure you that there is no problem with focussing using an Acute Matte screen!!! it's far brighter and easier to focus than the other system i used to use, a Contax 645. The rig has been rock solid in terms of focus and general use, far more solid in terms of focus than the 1DS2 i had. However after spouting the virtues of the system, i have now sold it and will be replacing it with a 1DS3 as the more i travel these days the heavier the Blad and digi SLR system seems to get, and i love the versatility of the shift and fast Canon lenses, which together with an M8 make a light (ish) high quality system. As for the HD 39, i am not it's biggest fan even though i have used Blad for the last 25 years, in my opinion the software sucks, wher the Phase was solid.

Gary.

[Jeff-Grant]

I have gone from a V system with both film and V96C backs to an H3D 39. My initial plan was to use the V lenses but the reality of the H lenses soon changed that. The 50-110 is excellent and very flexible provided you are on a tripod. I find the H3D to be great. The IQ is excellent and 39MP gives a lot of cropping room.

My plan was to keep a 503CW for film but the reality is that I am about to sell it as it just doesn't get used. I will use some of the funds to buy a film back for the times when I want really long exposures.

I was surprised by the flexibility of the camera. I even sold my Xpan. Who needs it when you can take a slice from a 39MP image and still end up with a bigger, cleaner pano.

[wolfnowl]

Pflower:

You may wish to contact Elizabeth Carmel (http://www.elizabethcarmel.com).  I don't think she hangs out on LL, but I do know she has gone from a V series camera on up to the H3D39 over the past few years. with H1/H2 in between.  She could fill you in on her impressions of the system.

Mike.

[pss]

i own a P30 and use it on a RZ...i wish i would have other options (a lighter, more 21st century body, technology,....) but there aren't any....if you like a WLF, stick with your V system, if oyu like a SLR finder, get the H.....on the V, the back rotates, on the H you have to rotate the camera and it does not(!) have vertical grip....i used to have a V system (555ELD, SWC, 501) with a leaf back and it works, but the cable is not very elegant...also the lenses (for example the 120 macro) did not work well with digital at all....shots f16 and up looked ...not good...all in all the system shows its age when you slap a dback on it....the only thing the V and the H have in common is the name...everything else is completely different....could not be more different...the Dx has much more in common with the H....the 55-110 is the heaviest lens i have ever used and is not handholdable IMO (and i used to handhold the fuji 680 and now i work with the RZ and the 180, no problem....)....check it out...do some tests...if you like the H system...buy into it and don't look back...also consider the H 3D 31......no DSLR finder is as bright and as big as a WLF....

[hubell]

i own a P30 and use it on a RZ...i wish i would have other options (a lighter, more 21st century body, technology,....) but there aren't any....if you like a WLF, stick with your V system, if oyu like a SLR finder, get the H.....on the V, the back rotates, on the H you have to rotate the camera and it does not(!) have vertical grip....i used to have a V system (555ELD, SWC, 501) with a leaf back and it works, but the cable is not very elegant...also the lenses (for example the 120 macro) did not work well with digital at all....shots f16 and up looked ...not good...all in all the system shows its age when you slap a dback on it....the only thing the V and the H have in common is the name...everything else is completely different....could not be more different...the Dx has much more in common with the H....the 55-110 is the heaviest lens i have ever used and is not handholdable IMO (and i used to handhold the fuji 680 and now i work with the RZ and the 180, no problem....)....check it out...do some tests...if you like the H system...buy into it and don't look back...also consider the H 3D 31......no DSLR finder is as bright and as big as a WLF....
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While I agree that the 50-110 is a pretty heavy lens and I am not sure that I would want to use it handheld(it's diminutive compared to the 60-140 zoom lens for the Hy6-the size of a torpedo), it is an amazing lens in terms of optical quality. I use it on a tripod all the time and it works perfectly for me that way for landscape work with an L bracket from RRS to shift to vertical orientation. The files from the H3D-39 are breathtaking in terms of resolution, dynamic range and color. I do think that with the right mix of experience and effort, I could probably produce files of comparable quality from the other MFDBs from Phase, Leaf and Sinar. The H3D-39 is, however, a tightly integrated package that Hasselblad is committed  to innovate on with things like a 28mm lens, GPS, excellent LCDs, a forthcoming tilt/shift lens and new software so, if you like the H platform, it is the right way to go today for landscape work. For other applications like fashion that PSS shoots with an RZ, I can't comment. Listen to others for advice on such applications.

[Dustbak]

I have been using Leaf, Phase (very briefly) and now Hasselblad. I have used all of them on the 553ELX and 503CW together with the 'standard' focussing screen, the acute matte, brightscreen. With the WLF and the PMe finder.

I am used to do manual focussing but always found the 500series pretty difficult to focus. I was able to do so but it was much more difficult than one should expect on a 6x6 system. There is also the added disadvantage of digital being much less forgiving with focus. When you are off focus there simply is no focus it seems!.

Currently I am almost completely over to Hasselblad H. I find the body itself pretty badly designed from an ergonomical point of view however a lot better than the 500's, which are proof you can make images with bricks as well. The HC lenses are sharp, really sharp almost as sharp as my ZF lenses however they can produce ugly OOF rendition. This doesn't happen always though, so it is not the big problem that I feared to encounter. Definitely less than I expected.

I have opted for the CF series because I like the flexibility of being able to use my backs on different equipment as well and I wanted the option of multishot. When you are perfectly happy with just one system I see no reason why not to go with the H3. MS is currently also available with the H3.

I find the AF of the H a good focus assist. I hardly ever use focus in the center and like being on top of what I am photographing so focus with AF and recompose is somewhat tricky because after recomposing the point of focus has changed slightly. This can easily be corrected manually.

The software is workable but not very intuitive but after having been involved in IT since age 8 (30years now) I can make pretty much everything work. The new about to be released software is better in this respect according to people that have had their hands on it already. Still I dislike the fact I cannot use my raw files with ACR or RD. I believe that is a real disadvantage.

On the other hand, I have also very good experiences with Leaf. Sturdy, currently very good software (still slow though) and more than 1 option of software besides the software supplied by Leaf. I have owned 3 Leafs and they all worked, always. Never had a problem with them. You are bound to the H1 or H2 when you want to use Hasselblad with Leaf. The people from Leaf itself are very responsive and on top of things which is another thing I think Leaf has going for them. They have gone from being totally whacked over their software to having the best options currently available, software-wise.

IQ of both are excellent, different in some areas maybe.