Harman Glossy really looks good!

[rgs]

I've been playing around with Harman's new glossy paper and I am very impressed. The stuff is really nice. There is not yet a profile for my printer (Canon iP4500) but a little adjustment to contrast and saturation and the paper just sings.

The paper is like a heavyweight air dried fiber based black and white paper. While I still prefer my darkroom for B&W, this stuff looks great in color. It's a look I could never get with plastic paper, wet or dry process. Can't wait for that profile!

RGS
http://www.myrsphoto.com

[AaronPhotog]

Richard,

I'm not that familiar with Canon printers, but with my Epson 3800, I like the Advanced Black and White mode with that paper a lot.  It is very sharp, smooth, good blacks, and excellent white separation as well.  All in all it's very linear.  I think if you spend a little more time with it, perhaps using QuadTone RIP, or one of the other really good RIPs for B&W, you'll find it to be very close to a really top notch silver print, and you might like it for Black and White even more than for color.

Aloha,
Aaron

[Harris]

Profiled it today with my Z3100 and got great results both in B & W and color.  When I showed the results to a wet darkroom photographer, he said he had difficulty telling it was from a inkjet.  One of the bigest problems is how expensive it is.  BTW, the paper I have is 11 x 17 and inorder to profile it on the Z3100, I had to use two sheets together.  The Harman web site has profiles for many of the other printers but not mine.

[rgs]

Yeah the price puzzles me, too. I've used lots of Ilford Galerie and Multigrade FB, both produced by the same group that's now producing Harman and at the same facility, and never paid more than about $40-50 per 100 (8x10) sheets. And that's with an emulsion rather than a blank sheet of paper! It makes no sense for a similar paper to be $2 per sheet when made for inkjet printers. I've been buying up sample packs at 1/2 price in multiple quanities while they last.

That said, the paper is still marvelous!

RGS
http://www.myrsphoto.com

 

Profiled it today with my Z3100 and got great results both in B & W and color.  When I showed the results to a wet darkroom photographer, he said he had difficulty telling it was from a inkjet.  One of the bigest problems is how expensive it is.  BTW, the paper I have is 11 x 17 and inorder to profile it on the Z3100, I had to use two sheets together.  The Harman web site has profiles for many of the other printers but not mine.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150464\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[rdonson]

And that's with an emulsion rather than a blank sheet of paper! It makes no sense for a similar paper to be $2 per sheet when made for inkjet printers.

RGS
http://www.myrsphoto.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150473\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Inkjet paper isn't blank paper.  It has a coating and lots of effort involved.  

Price is dictated by the market.  When photogs scream for years that they'd pay anything for an inkjet paper that was like their old silver gelatin..... they get their wish.

[rgs]

I realize that was overstatement and it was intended to make a point. There is a good deal of research and and manufacturing skill involved in making Harman paper (or any other good inkjet paper) to be sure.

The point is that, at least to me, it seems that traditional photographic paper is has many of the same factors with the additional expense of a light sensitive emulsion (and the requisite dark manufacture after coating).

Wet process color paper has always been cheaper than premium black and white, which I always attributed to the heavier paper and the additional silver content in the emulsion.

Unless the market forces are vastly different, I just can't see a reason for an inkjet paper to be 2-3 times more expensive than a traditional photo paper of a similar type. But then I have been wrong before. Why back in 1971, I remember...    Regardless of the price, the paper is superb and I like it very much. I'll just have to use it more sparingly than I would like, which is kind of a hidden market force if many others do the same.

Richard Smith
Richard Smith Photography

Inkjet paper isn't blank paper.  It has a coating and lots of effort involved. 

Price is dictated by the market.  When photogs scream for years that they'd pay anything for an inkjet paper that was like their old silver gelatin..... they get their wish.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150541\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Mary K]

Profiled it today with my Z3100 and got great results both in B & W and color.  When I showed the results to a wet darkroom photographer, he said he had difficulty telling it was from a inkjet.  One of the bigest problems is how expensive it is.  BTW, the paper I have is 11 x 17 and inorder to profile it on the Z3100, I had to use two sheets together.  The Harman web site has profiles for many of the other printers but not mine.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150464\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've been trying to profile this paper on my Z3100 44", but all efforts have resulted in transfer roll marks.  What paper setting are you using?

Thanks - Mary

[rdonson]

Unless the market forces are vastly different, I just can't see a reason for an inkjet paper to be 2-3 times more expensive than a traditional photo paper of a similar type. But then I have been wrong before. Why back in 1971, I remember...    Regardless of the price, the paper is superb and I like it very much. I'll just have to use it more sparingly than I would like, which is kind of a hidden market force if many others do the same.

Richard Smith
Richard Smith Photography
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150569\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't recall pricing of my favorite F-type surfaces when they were first introduced but I don't recall thinking of any of them as inexpensive.  It did seem like over time they weren't as expensive as when first introduced.  Like you, I remember back to the 60's for my b&w.

I don't understand the current market forces either unless its that the U.S. $ is taking a real beating and a lot of our favorite papers are coming from Europe.

[sojournerphoto]

I don't recall pricing of my favorite F-type surfaces when they were first introduced but I don't recall thinking of any of them as inexpensive.  It did seem like over time they weren't as expensive as when first introduced.  Like you, I remember back to the 60's for my b&w.

I don't understand the current market forces either unless its that the U.S. $ is taking a real beating and a lot of our favorite papers are coming from Europe.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150584\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No, I believe they cost even more in europe I'm afraid

Mike

UK

[rdonson]

No, I believe they cost even more in europe I'm afraid

Mike

UK
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150791\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Wow!  That's a shock, Mike.

[01af]

A few days ago I tried my first sheets of Harman Gloss FB Al on an Epson Stylus Pro 3800 ... and I'm having mixed feelings. I really like the substantial heft of the material, the subdued satin gloss (like air-dried baryta indeed) of the surface, and the luscious glow of the print. But what about gloss differential? I keep reading from others the Harman Gloss paper had particularly low gloss differential---but I'm seeing quite a lot of it, compared to Epson's Premium Glossy and Premium Luster :-(

-- Olaf

[neil snape]

A few days ago I tried my first sheets of Harman Gloss FB Al on an Epson Stylus Pro 3800 ... and I'm having mixed feelings. I really like the substantial heft of the material, the subdued satin gloss (like air-dried baryta indeed) of the surface, and the luscious glow of the print. But what about gloss differential? I keep reading from others the Harman Gloss paper had particularly low gloss differential---but I'm seeing quite a lot of it, compared to Epson's Premium Glossy and Premium Luster :-(

-- Olaf
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150895\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I find the same on B&W . It is however controlled with GE on the Z3100 so it is still usable in that regard. I can imagine on the new Canon x100s it should be okay too with the new grey inks.

[dkeyes]

I find the same on B&W . It is however controlled with GE on the Z3100 so it is still usable in that regard. I can imagine on the new Canon x100s it should be okay too with the new grey inks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150914\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Does the GE on the z3100 make the surface look plastic or satin? I'm thinking of trying this paper but worried it will scratch and not look like Baryta once the GE is put down on top.

[neil snape]

Does the GE on the z3100 make the surface look plastic or satin? I'm thinking of trying this paper but worried it will scratch and not look like Baryta once the GE is put down on top.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151248\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

GE is not that glossy, in fact a bit duller than most F type surface coatings. GE does flatten down a bit the sheen on AL FA. Already the AL FA surface is fragile, so GE won't change that much, as it is in itself fragile.

[fike]

My prints on a 2400 have been excellent.  The prints seem sharper, although the canned profile seems to lose a bit in the shadows.  I will need to experiment a bit there.

One downer I have noticed though.....It doesn't seem to be very durable.  I have a standard sample print that I have used for dozens of papers.  I lay them out on a table or under glass and compare.  After spending a few weeks of handling this print, it has gotten pretty beat-up.  I know that this type of handling is a bit unusual, but the other prints I am using for comparison are less scuffed than the FB-AL.

[Gary Ferguson]

Is the Harman paper the same as the new Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk?

And can anyone definitively say if it's possible to print these new baryta papers with the Z3100?

[rdonson]

Is the Harman paper the same as the new Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk?

And can anyone definitively say if it's possible to print these new baryta papers with the Z3100?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For your second question check out this [a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20581]thread.[/url]

[Gary Ferguson]

For your second question check out this thread.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151556\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you, but if I've read this and other threads correctly there's one user saying he can print successfully with Harman/baryta papers on the Z3100, but I've not reading any widespread agreement with the statement.

If I get a Z3100 it'll be to use wth these baryta papers and subsequent generations of them, I guess what I'm looking for is a genral acceptance across a number of Z3100 users that this printer/paper combination is entirely usuable.

[Mary K]

Thank you, but if I've read this and other threads correctly there's one user saying he can print successfully with Harman/baryta papers on the Z3100, but I've not reading any widespread agreement with the statement.

If I get a Z3100 it'll be to use wth these baryta papers and subsequent generations of them, I guess what I'm looking for is a genral acceptance across a number of Z3100 users that this printer/paper combination is entirely usuable.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151577\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've tried the Harman Gloss on my Z3100 using every paper selection I can think of, and I've been unable to produce a print that doesn't show transfer roll smudges.  I talked to HP Tech Support about this, and was told that they were expecting to have a hardware fix for this problem in late December or January.  I've given up on this paper for now.  If anyone has a solution I'd be happy to hear about it.

[canlogic]

I received my Epson 7880 today so created a profile for it and did a couple of test prints. So far I am very impressed. If I could only get something more than sample packs of 8.5x11. I have some different sizes on order and should get them next week.