MFDB Manufacturers Upgrade Policies

[tomholland]

The biggest gray area in MFDB as a customer is not, not being able to find specs for a back or being able to try the cameras, it is trying to get information of what a particular manufacturers upgrade policy is. I understand that fluctuation in international monies makes a universal worldwide pricing structure impossible, but this does not mean that a clear policy on future upgrades or at least upgrades for a stated time period is.

I invite manufacturers  to state what their upgrade policy is, and for their customers to share what  upgrade policies they were promised at the time of purchase.

With Digital improvements making upgrades a necessity every 2-4 years (whereas in film days upgrades were required maybe every 8 Years) I think that a clear and concise upgrade policy from the different  manufacturers is relevant for the amount of money these MFDB systems cost.

I personally am about to upgrade to my third digital back in 3.75 years and am trying to figure out which manufacturers are supporting their regular customers best.

[j.miller]

Tom,
     At least within the Hasselblad brand of medium format digital, we try and keep the "Trade-Up" options clear and readily accessibly on our website. Bear in mind, some of these have changed since the introduction of the H3D-II and H3D-IIMS. However the price changes are fairly minor, and isolated. As you can imagine, even within one particular manufacturer's product offerings, there can be many upgrade / Trade-Up paths depending what particular product you own.

Hasselblad Trade-Up Options

Some manufacturers are not as clear on every upgrade option available, so I encourage you to contact me (or your preferred local dealer) for specific details. You will find most dealers in this narrow market (medium format digital) have a very good understanding of how each manufacturer handles these upgrades / Trade-ups / Trade-ins. This is primarily a "value-added" service available to the end-user, to keep a loyal and happy customer.

We handle Leaf upgrades and trade-ins on a case-by-case basis, as there can be numerous options. Feel free to contact me for specific info. In addition, most manufactures offer promotions involving the trading-in of competitors back as well!

Regardless of manufacturer, I believe most medium format digital users are unaware of just how much residual value is left in even previous generation technology. Certainly one of the many under-advertised benefits of this market.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

The biggest gray area in MFDB as a customer is not, not being able finding specs or being able to try the cameras, it is trying to get information of what a particular manufacturers upgrade policy is. I understand that fluctuation in international monies makes a universal worldwide pricing structure impossible, but this does not mean that a clear policy on future upgrades or at least upgrades for a stated time period is.

I invite manufacturers  to state what their upgrade policy is, and for their customers to share what  upgrade policies they were promised at the time of purchase.

With Digital improvements making upgrades a necessity every 2-4 years (whereas in film days upgrades were required maybe every 8 Years) I think that a clear and concise upgrade policy from the different  manufacturers is relevant for the amount of money these MFDB systems cost.

I personally am about to upgrade to my third digital back in 3.75 years and am trying to figure out which manufacturers are supporting their regular customers best.
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[rueyloon]

...Regardless of manufacturer, I believe most medium format digital users are unaware of just how much residual is left is even previous generation technology. Certainly one of the many under-advertised benefits of this market.

hello

hi, would you care to share what do you mean by that ?

cheers

[pprdigital]

hello

hi, would you care to share what do you mean by that ?

cheers
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Ruey:

An example of what Jordan is referring to is that if you had, say an Imacon 96C, you could upgrade that to an H3D-39 for $21,000. Which means that Hasselblad gives you $13,000 for that 96C, which is way, way more than what the street value of that product is (by about $8K - $9K).

Or you could upgrade it to a CF-39 - especially if you wanted to keep it on whatever camera you were using it on - and your upgrade price would be $14,900, which means they would be giving you $15,000 and change for your 96C, which is more than it sold for when it was brand new.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

[j.miller]

Rueyloon,
       I need to proof read my posts before hitting the "Add Reply" button. I corrected my original post. In any event, the point I was trying to make, is that there is significantly greater value in previous generation, medium format digital backs than you might think. Given the longer obsolescence  cycles to this technology, coupled with the smaller production numbers (in comparison to 35mm DSLR's), medium format digital backs hold a much higher value even after several (3-5) years of heavy use.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

hello

hi, would you care to share what do you mean by that ?

cheers
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150168\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[j.miller]

Thanks Steve, you beat me to an example! Another example, a 132C/H1 kit could be "Traded-Up" to an H3DII-39 for $17,000.00. Hasselblad is giving you $16,995 for your Ixpress 132C/H1 kit!

Hasselblad will even give you $5,000 for an Imacon FlexFrame 3020, when you Trade-Up to the current generation system.

It is certainly worth discussing any and all Trade-Up / Trade-In / Upgrade options with a dealer, as there are plenty of deals to be had, outside buying refurbs or demo units.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Ruey:

An example of what Jordan is referring to is that if you had, say an Imacon 96C, you could upgrade that to an H3D-39 for $21,000. Which means that Hasselblad gives you $13,000 for that 96C, which is way, way more than what the street value of that product is (by about $8K - $9K).

Or you could upgrade it to a CF-39 - especially if you wanted to keep it on whatever camera you were using it on - and your upgrade price would be $14,900, which means they would be giving you $15,000 and change for your 96C, which is more than it sold for when it was brand new.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
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[pprdigital]

Last night we held a Hasselblad launch event for the H3DII in Atlanta. One of the attendees pulled me aside and asked if Hasselblad would be offering more aggressive trade in values towards 3rd party backs. The recent "open letter" from Hasselblad hinted at some type of ongoing formalized program for H owners, which we have not received details on yet.

However, I told this customer - who owns an H2 and P45+ - (as well as several others who have contacted me recently about switching) that regardless of the generosity of Hasselblad's trade arrangement, it is not going to be something like $15,000 or $20,000. That just isn't going to happen. Maybe it will be $10,000. I don't know.

As some of the previous posts have shown, trading in an older digital back (like a P20) is not a bad way to go, but for newer vintages, it's better to sell it yourself to another end user. Take this person last night with the P45+/H2. Let's say he sells his P45+ and he gets $18K for it. He can then trade in his H2 camera to Hasselblad and he will receive $5,000 trade on the camera, so then he is at $23,000 credit towards an H3DII. Not what he paid for it, but at that point, at least the decision becomes more reasonable to make whether or not to switch.

So - there are ways.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

[H1/A75 Guy]

Take this person last night with the P45+/H2. Let's say he sells his P45+ and he gets $18K for it. He can then trade in his H2 camera to Hasselblad and he will receive $5,000 trade on the camera, so then he is at $23,000 credit towards an H3DII. Not what he paid for it, but at that point, at least the decision becomes more reasonable to make whether or not to switch.

So - there are ways.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
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So Steve,

Your points are well taken, but let's go a step further. What would you recommend to a person who is not inclined to buy an H3DII and would like to sell a A75/H1? Would that person be wiser to sell the A75/H1 as a 'bundled' unit of say $21,500US, given the A75 mount is specific to the H1/H2 and those platforms are no longer available? Or wouild it be smarter to sell the A75 as a stand alone unit for $18,000US and the H1 'kit' for $3,500US? Also, did I read anywhere that a Point & Shoot digital camera inccurs no additional excise tax in the EC, so perhaps a 'bundled' A75/H1 could pass through European customs as a P&S to a European buyer with no additional tax?

Thanks,
David

[Dustbak]

A digital camera enters the EU without import duty anyway only cameras that are able to do video get import duty (not sure how much though).

For analog cameras it is like with lenses 6.7%. So alway make sure the description on the package has words like digital camera in it.

The only taxes us Europeans get is VAT for DIGITAL cameras. When you sell it to someone that runs his own business and has a VAT number he can recoup the VAT from their tax administration.

Now with the low USD valuation it is very attractive to buy stuff from the US. Especially when you only have to pay for shipping (when running you own company, which most people that buy stuff like this do).

[H1/A75 Guy]

A digital camera enters the EU without import duty anyway only cameras that are able to do video get import duty (not sure how much though).

For analog cameras it is like with lenses 6.7%. So alway make sure the description on the package has words like digital camera in it.

The only taxes us Europeans get is VAT for DIGITAL cameras. When you sell it to someone that runs his own business and has a VAT number he can recoup the VAT from their tax administration.

Now with the low USD valuation it is very attractive to buy stuff from the US. Especially when you only have to pay for shipping (when running you own company, which most people that buy stuff like this do).
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Thanks, Dustbak. So VAT (always applied) and import duty (except in the case of digital cameras) are the added taxes for EU buyers receiving used camera equipment from off-shore. Would selling an A75 back (without camera platform) still not incurr import duty?

[Dustbak]

No it would not. Just VAT.

[clawery]

Tom,

It's rather difficult to give a broad upgrade policy for Phase One MFDBs. Each individual case is different.  Phase One has always been very generous with their trade ins and upgrades.
I would also suggest contacting your local dealer to find out what specials there are on trade-ins, upgrades and demo specials.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
(877)217-9870   toll free

[godtfred]

Thanks, Dustbak. So VAT (always applied) and import duty (except in the case of digital cameras) are the added taxes for EU buyers receiving used camera equipment from off-shore. Would selling an A75 back (without camera platform) still not incurr import duty?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150407\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This even goes for some non EU contries. When I bought my Linhof M679CS, it was from a danish dealer, and was sendt to me in Norway.

As the Linhof M679CS is considered to be part of a Digital Camera System, it only incurs 25% VAT, no taxes at all on top of that...

-axel