Croppable captures from MFDB

[David WM]

Is it likely that we'll be seeing a MFDB with the ability to crop at capture? A fair bit of my work does not need the resolution of the eMotion22 that I use. If doing something like a studio job where there is a lot to shoot and the reproduction size is small the ability to crop the capture would save a huge amount of data transfer and make the system a lot more efficient. When I think of the later model backs with 33 or 39 mp backs, it seems just impractical to use these backs for some jobs. I'd prefer to work with just the one system if possible and this feature is on offer in 35mm systems so why not MF?  
I was also wondering how many programs allow you to save the crop of  raw files. I know its not possible with the current version of Captureshop, but I am hoping it wil be in EXposure when it arrives. I think from memory that Leaf had this feature some years ago.

David

[Weldon Brewster]

With Flexcolor tethered you can crop with capture.
W-

[Graham Mitchell]

I know its not possible with the current version of Captureshop
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150033\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What do you mean by crop at capture?

In Captureshop you can apply one crop setting to an entire batch or individually for each image before export. No problem.

[thsinar]

David,

if by "Crop" you mean not using the full resolution of the sensor, then this is possible with the eMotion backs. Check your firmware level. It is possible since FW level 3.4 if my memory is right. The latest FW is 4.45. You can download it from:

www.sinarcameras.com ----> "Login" -----> "Downloads"

Then you can set in the eMotion "Settings" the "Mode" (Resolution) of full or 1/2 resolution.

Hope this helps,
Thierry

Is it likely that we'll be seeing a MFDB with the ability to crop at capture? A fair bit of my work does not need the resolution of the eMotion22 that I use. If doing something like a studio job where there is a lot to shoot and the reproduction size is small the ability to crop the capture would save a huge amount of data transfer and make the system a lot more efficient. When I think of the later model backs with 33 or 39 mp backs, it seems just impractical to use these backs for some jobs. I'd prefer to work with just the one system if possible and this feature is on offer in 35mm systems so why not MF? 
I was also wondering how many programs allow you to save the crop of  raw files. I know its not possible with the current version of Captureshop, but I am hoping it wil be in EXposure when it arrives. I think from memory that Leaf had this feature some years ago.

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150033\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[David WM]

Yes I do mean crop at capture, so instead of capturing a 61mb (8 bit rgb) 4000 x 5300 pixel file, you could just shoot a centre crop of say 2500 x 2500 pixels, an 18 mb file.

If the internall processing to effect this crop is efficient then the speed of shooting tethered would be faster and the Mac would be much faster. The option of saving the raw file would be more realistic.  

I do make good use of the applying crop to a whole batch at the moment, but that is after you have dragged a full resolution file down the cable and into captureshop.

David

What do you mean by crop at capture?

In Captureshop you can apply one crop setting to an entire batch or individually for each image before export. No problem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150061\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

.... as said, David: this is possible with the eMotion "Settings": you can set to half resolution.

Thierry

Yes I do mean crop at capture, so instead of capturing a 61mb (8 bit rgb) 4000 x 5300 pixel file, you could just shoot a centre crop of say 2500 x 2500 pixels, an 18 mb file.

If the internall processing to effect this crop is efficient then the speed of shooting tethered would be faster and the Mac would be much faster. The option of saving the raw file would be more realistic.   

I do make good use of the applying crop to a whole batch at the moment, but that is after you have dragged a full resolution file down the cable and into captureshop.

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150147\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[David WM]

Thierry,
I am using fw 4.45, and I don't see any option for half resolution. Under settings -- image mode-- there is an option for either normal or compressed. I have not used the compressed option before so I just gave it a try. It did not change the file size when shooting tethered. When shooting untethered it did seem to more than double the available capacity on the internall storage. The .sti files end up the same size as usual, either tethered of not tethered, but if I download the files from internal storage using eMotion reader the IA and BR files are half of the normal file size. Do you have any information about the quality of this compression?

I did not intend this to be a discussion of Sinar backs specifically, but like autofocus and the lead that 35mm has taken, this seems to be a useful feature that is available for some 35mm systems and would be even more relevant to the large chips being used in medium format. I think it is this sort of feature that would help Medium format as sometimes the file size is just a negative, but you don't want to change systems or buy an extra system just for those situations. As chip sizes get larger it will become an even more relevant feature.

David

David,

if by "Crop" you mean not using the full resolution of the sensor, then this is possible with the eMotion backs. Check your firmware level. It is possible since FW level 3.4 if my memory is right. The latest FW is 4.45. You can download it from:

www.sinarcameras.com ----> "Login" -----> "Downloads"

Then you can set in the eMotion "Settings" the "Mode" (Resolution) of full or 1/2 resolution.

Hope this helps,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150135\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[David WM]

you got it John

I think he is asking a different question. I interpret that David wants a digital back to have the option of what a Nikon D2x does by actually cropping the center portion of the sensor and move just that through as a file. The Sinar firmware allows the entire sensor image to be saved but as a reduced file size at raw but still what the whole sensor viewed not a cropped portion. Correct David?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150158\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[David WM]

Hi Weldonb

What do you mean by crop with capture?

Do you still pull the entire file down the firewire cable and open it in software?

David

With Flexcolor tethered you can crop with capture.
W-
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150052\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

David,

yes, that's it: compressed mode is 1/2. It does effectively double the numbers of shots in the internal memory or CF card in the eMotion (actually more than double, because the BR. files = Black References do also take space), but as files are dowloaded, they will be un-compressed (interpolated), thus having the same final size as a full-res.

Thanks for your input. I shall forward it.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry,
I am using fw 4.45, and I don't see any option for half resolution. Under settings -- image mode-- there is an option for either normal or compressed. I have not used the compressed option before so I just gave it a try. It did not change the file size when shooting tethered. When shooting untethered it did seem to more than double the available capacity on the internall storage. The .sti files end up the same size as usual, either tethered of not tethered, but if I download the files from internal storage using eMotion reader the IA and BR files are half of the normal file size. Do you have any information about the quality of this compression?

I did not intend this to be a discussion of Sinar backs specifically, but like autofocus and the lead that 35mm has taken, this seems to be a useful feature that is available for some 35mm systems and would be even more relevant to the large chips being used in medium format. I think it is this sort of feature that would help Medium format as sometimes the file size is just a negative, but you don't want to change systems or buy an extra system just for those situations. As chip sizes get larger it will become an even more relevant feature.

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150159\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Dustbak]

I reckon he is talking about cropping and having half (or just the cropped part) going through the line and ending up as a raw file.

Sofar I know of no back that is able to do this. I have no experience with Sinar so cannot comment for that back but from what Thierry is telling it seems that Sinar is not able to do so either.

You are mistaking output resolution with capture resolution I assume? Most backs/programs can output basically whatever format you like but you will be pulling the whole (maybe compressed) raw file through the wire.

This would be a helpful feature for more than one thing. I could use it on my DigiFlex to set around 24x36, crop the part of my table to where the white is, etc.. It would be possible to save time, storage and final processing. In my world where every minute of work on an image counts it would be welcome.

[Weldon Brewster]

Sorry David, I misunderstood your question.  There is no way to crop a raw file as you are uploading it in Flexcolor.  Only happens when you process it.  The cheapest way to get more speed out of the upload is a new computer maxxed out in Ram.

Weldon