Topic: Exposure change after LR-CS2 round-trip? (Read 6469 times)

Andy Barnes · « **on:** October 31, 2007, 08:38:49 am »

I have a problem with what seems to be a change in exposure or brightness to the edit-tif version of a raw file once I have completed a visit to CS2 to apply some output sharpening.

What I do is this : once I am happy with my Develop settings I select Edit in Photosjop CS2. My Copy File options are Tiff, ProPhoto RGB, 16-bit, no compression. In CS2 (colour settings : Preserve embedded profile) ALL I do is apply output sharpening using Photokit Sharpener, save, then exit. That's it. Yet when I view the edit-tiff version of the file back in LR the image I see is a lot brighter than the developed raw version that I was happy with. I'll try and attach a screen-grab so you can see what I mean.

Any ideas what might be causing this change? Am I making a basic mistake somewhere?

I am using LR 1.2 trial version on a PowerPC Mac, 1GB ram, OS 10.4.1. My CRT screen is profiled using GretagMacbeth.

Apologies in advance if this has already been discussed, but I have hunted around for an answer and failed to find anything.

picnic · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2007, 08:50:29 am »

Quote

I have a problem with what seems to be a change in exposure or brightness to the edit-tif version of a raw file once I have completed a visit to CS2 to apply some output sharpening.

What I do is this : once I am happy with my Develop settings I select Edit in Photosjop CS2. My Copy File options are Tiff, ProPhoto RGB, 16-bit, no compression. In CS2 (colour settings : Preserve embedded profile) ALL I do is apply output sharpening using Photokit Sharpener, save, then exit. That's it. Yet when I view the edit-tiff version of the file back in LR the image I see is a lot brighter than the developed raw version that I was happy with. I'll try and attach a screen-grab so you can see what I mean.

Any ideas what might be causing this change? Am I making a basic mistake somewhere?

I am using LR 1.2 trial version on a PowerPC Mac, 1GB ram, OS 10.4.1. My CRT screen is profiled using GretagMacbeth.

Apologies in advance if this has already been discussed, but I have hunted around for an answer and failed to find anything.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149769\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andy, I am on a PC, but I use the round trip all the time for PKS after RAW correction in LR. I don't get anything like this (exactly what I see in PS) so will be interested in seeing if anyone else has some ideas. Jeff Schewe or Andrew Rodney would be good ones to answer this since they are extremely knowledgable about LR/PS, but others that have been using LR for a good amount of time (and on Macs) might be able to answer also. Oh, I'm using CS3 but I don't think that would make a difference. I've looked at your settings several times and can't see a problem with them. Is your CS2 also set for Prophoto in color management also (I did note that you have it set for 'preserve embedded profile')?

Diane

Andy Barnes · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2007, 10:55:31 am »

Quote

Andy, I am on a PC, but I use the round trip all the time for PKS after RAW correction in LR. I don't get anything like this (exactly what I see in PS) so will be interested in seeing if anyone else has some ideas. Jeff Schewe or Andrew Rodney would be good ones to answer this since they are extremely knowledgable about LR/PS, but others that have been using LR for a good amount of time (and on Macs) might be able to answer also. Oh, I'm using CS3 but I don't think that would make a difference. I've looked at your settings several times and can't see a problem with them. Is your CS2 also set for Prophoto in color management also (I did note that you have it set for 'preserve embedded profile')?

Diane
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Diane

I did have CS2 set for ProPhoto in color management, and the same thing was happening. I then switched to Preserve embedded profile this morning to see if it would make a difference, but the brightness issue is still there.

I will just wait for a while and see if the collective intellectual might of the LL forum can throw some light on this!

Andy

stever · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2007, 11:28:59 am »

i had this problem too - i believe the problem was Photoshop not being set to Adobe 1998

Andy Barnes · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2007, 02:01:18 pm »

Quote

i had this problem too - i believe the problem was Photoshop not being set to Adobe 1998
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149803\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Steve

Thanks for that - it worked. I switched the working colour profile of CS2 to Adobe RGB, rather than ProPhoto, and did the same thing - export from LR to CS2, sharpen, save, quit, back to LR. The edit-tif file matched my original developed raw.

However...this whole thing is just wierd. ProPhoto should work. The Lightroom video tutorials encourage us to use the wider gamut of ProPhoto, and I was under the impression that LR used ProPhoto when processing raw files (could be wrong about that). So if LR uses ProPhoto, and the tiff file is sent to CS2 with ProPhoto embedded in it, and CS2 uses ProPhoto, then why does the image end up back where it started looking so anaemic?

Also, when I open the tiff (which LR shows as over-exposed) in iView MediaPro or back in Photoshop again, it displays perfectly. An exact match to the original raw with my Develop settings. So it seems that the underlying tiff file is actually OK, but perhaps the preview that Lightroom is rendering of that file is off.

Hmm...I'm very puzzled. Anyone have any thoughts...?

Andy

allan67 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2007, 02:08:56 pm »

Quote

So it seems that the underlying tiff file is actually OK, but perhaps the preview that Lightroom is rendering of that file is off.

Hmm...I'm very puzzled. Anyone have any thoughts...?

Andy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149836\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hello,

Did you try to force LR to render the full size preview to see if this helps?

Try to open the file in Develop module and move any slider to force LR to update cached preview.

Or you can try importing the file into a new catalogue to see if it renders correctly.

Allan

Andy Barnes · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2007, 04:55:01 pm »

Quote

Hello,

Did you try to force LR to render the full size preview to see if this helps?

Try to open the file in Develop module and move any slider to force LR to update cached preview.

Or you can try importing the file into a new catalogue to see if it renders correctly.

Allan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149838\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Allan

I've just tried both of your suggestions, but with no changes, i.e. the image of the tiff that I see in Lightroom is overexposed by about a stop compared to its "parent" raw file, or even the tiff itself when viewed in an external editor.

Thanks for your suggestion though.

Andy

adrianp · « **Reply #7 on:** November 21, 2007, 06:08:21 am »

Andy,

Did you manage to resolve this problem? I have the exact same issue with Lightroom and Photoshop CS2. I have tried the 1.3 upgrade but it didn't help.

I have tried many colour management permutations but I get the problem whether I use ProPhoto or AdobeRGB. I'm also not convinced that the problem is with Photoshop as I tried configuring another external editor (IrfanView, which I use as a quick image viewer) to which I exported images as 8-bit TIFFs in sRGB. Making a crop in IrfanView and saving the cropped image results in the same expsoure boost when coming back to LR. I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling LR but it didn't help.

I'm running out of ideas -- anybody have any suggestions?

Thanks,
Adrian

flas · « **Reply #8 on:** November 21, 2007, 10:03:28 am »

Quote

I have a problem with what seems to be a change in exposure or brightness to the edit-tif version of a raw file once I have completed a visit to CS2 to apply some output sharpening.

What I do is this : once I am happy with my Develop settings I select Edit in Photosjop CS2. My Copy File options are Tiff, ProPhoto RGB, 16-bit, no compression. In CS2 (colour settings : Preserve embedded profile) ALL I do is apply output sharpening using Photokit Sharpener, save, then exit. That's it. Yet when I view the edit-tiff version of the file back in LR the image I see is a lot brighter than the developed raw version that I was happy with. I'll try and attach a screen-grab so you can see what I mean.

Any ideas what might be causing this change? Am I making a basic mistake somewhere?

I am using LR 1.2 trial version on a PowerPC Mac, 1GB ram, OS 10.4.1. My CRT screen is profiled using GretagMacbeth.

Apologies in advance if this has already been discussed, but I have hunted around for an answer and failed to find anything.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149769\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andy,
I'm also on a Mac PPC (with OS 10.5.1) and using the same settings as you are. I also do my sharpening in CS2 with Photoikt Sharpener. My color settings are also ProPhoto RGB (LR and CS2). I don't have any problems at all. Did you make the right settings in LR under preferences?
Here are mine:
External editing: Photoshop CS2; File format Tiff; Color space ProPhoto RGB; Bit depht 16 bits; compression none.
In Photoshop CS2: working color space ProPhoto RGB
With these settings you should'nt have any problems
Hope this helps???
Regards and good luck

Nat Coalson · « **Reply #9 on:** November 21, 2007, 01:56:04 pm »

It sounds like your default Develop settings are being "double-applied".... when you bring the file back into Lightroom make sure all the Develop settings are Zero'd.

I've found that LR has varying behavior for this. If you Edit in Photoshop and save your Photoshop changes immediately after your edit, Lightroom is pretty smart about applying Zero'd settings to the edit file.

But if you Edit again later, or you Synchronize or Import an edited file, it's quite possible that Lightroom will apply your default develop settings to the PSD/TIF, resulting in double processing the file. This will also happen if you use the Export command and then import or sync folders later.

To quickly fix this (or make sure it's not the case) filter your location to show only your edit file types, and apply the Zero'd develop preset.

adrianp · « **Reply #10 on:** November 22, 2007, 05:45:17 am »

Hi Nat,

I tried your suggestion (applying the Zero'd develop preset) and this did indeed restore expsoure so that the Edit file matched the original.

I looked in the Default Develop Settings section of the Presets preferences and found that "Apply auto tone adjustments" was checked -- unchecking this enables me to get the behviour I expect (no exposure boost after an external edit).

So, while this fixes the problem, it appears that LR isn't being so smart about avoiding these settings being double applied when using Edit in Photoshop (or any other external editor). Does this sound like a bug or is it expected?

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

Adrian

Quote

It sounds like your default Develop settings are being "double-applied".... when you bring the file back into Lightroom make sure all the Develop settings are Zero'd.

I've found that LR has varying behavior for this. If you Edit in Photoshop and save your Photoshop changes immediately after your edit, Lightroom is pretty smart about applying Zero'd settings to the edit file.

But if you Edit again later, or you Synchronize or Import an edited file, it's quite possible that Lightroom will apply your default develop settings to the PSD/TIF, resulting in double processing the file. This will also happen if you use the Export command and then import or sync folders later.

To quickly fix this (or make sure it's not the case) filter your location to show only your edit file types, and apply the Zero'd develop preset.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154734\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andy Barnes · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2008, 04:32:52 am »

Quote

It sounds like your default Develop settings are being "double-applied".... when you bring the file back into Lightroom make sure all the Develop settings are Zero'd.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154734\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I've been out of the loop since the birth of my daughter shortly after the last reply in this discussion.

Anyway, I just wanted to echo Adrian's reply, and say thanks to Nat. Yes, Lightroom was trying to auto-develop the image again after the Photoshop edit. Like Adrian, I had 'Apply auto tone adjustments' checked in the Presets section of my LR Preferences. Once unchecked, my PS edits were left alone when brought back into LR, with the result that they almost exactly matched the original raw image with my develop settings. Great!

I also agree with Adrian. While it's nice to know that there was ultimately a simple solution to this 'feature', there's a part of me that feels that perhaps it shouldn't have happened. I'm not sure it's a bug as such, more a workflow/usability thing. Perhaps LR 2.0 could not apply develop settings to LR-PS roundtrip edits, regardless of whether the auto tone option is checked or not? Make that item 76,234 on the LR 2.0 wish list...

Now if only those boys at Adobe could find a way to get Lightroom to feed my baby daughter at 3am...

Andy

Author Topic: Exposure change after LR-CS2 round-trip? (Read 6469 times)