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Author Topic: Anyone shooting MFDB digital plus film?  (Read 20993 times)

Graham Mitchell

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Anyone shooting MFDB digital plus film?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2007, 07:00:35 pm »

I might consider putting film through my Rollei if I go to a particularly dangerous location where I'd be uncomfortable with a digital back.
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KAP

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Anyone shooting MFDB digital plus film?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2007, 07:13:45 pm »

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I shot a few thousand rolls with my four 67 and 67II and compared the pictures to my Hasselblad V lenses and Schneider Super-Angulon XL (47 and 58) I used for some jobs. Except for a bid of distortion and some CA in the corners with the 45mm lens Pentax 67 equipment is absolutely top notch. This was extremely fine equipment at a reasonable price. Some might think it can´t be too god, because of it´s price, but that´s not the case. I `m talking of the last series of lenses with the rubber grip surface. The older versions were not as good.

When I started with the RZ I compared a sh 180mm Z to a Pentax 200/f4 (newer version). The Mamiya was so much behind that I returned it and went for a newer 180 SB.

Also I never had any problems with the shutter of the Pentax.

When I bought it, I had all the bad rumors about it in my mind. None of them became true.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149633\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes I get good results with the Pentax or else I would not use them and for aerial work they beat the Hasselbladi n many areas. But I get better results from a Makina and Corfield, no mirror and a between the lens shuitter makes for a smoother exposure.

Kevin.
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Bernd B.

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« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2007, 03:11:51 pm »

One thing was not mentioned in this thread before: the new generation Kodak Portra 160 and 400  films are way better to scan than the older version, at least on my Howteks when wet scanned. If you have older films in stock give them away or throw them away but don`t use them anymore for scanning. The difference is enormous.

I got my H3D39 today and I might say from my first impressions that a drum scanned Pentax 67 Portra 400NC is by far superior to a H3D at iso 400. That means something in the digital era. But don´t ask me how many days it takes to get a simple portrait job finished. That´s why I bought the H3D.
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Rob C

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« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2007, 04:30:24 pm »

Bernd, I did use my Pentax 67 ll on a Gitzo so heavy I can hardly carry it anymore! I did have brand new lenses and though I tried everything I could think of not to have to admit to myself and my bank account that I´d made a boo boo, there was no alternative but to cut my losses. (I had the 55 and 200 lenses, if I forgot to mention that earlier.)

Hasselblad 500 cameras also have issues with mirror bounce - all such heavy objects do, it´s an unavoidable fact of both physics and life - and Hasselblad were honest enough to admit as much in their own Newsletter once and showed the difference between two shots, one with MU and the other without. But their lenses (okay, Zeiss´s lenses) never showed shutter problems converted into blur. About all that ever went wrong with them was the delayed action thinggy on the C series, which I think was discontinued on the later lenses.

But the Pentax has another, additional problem, and that´s caused by the mass of the shutter blinds. I always used the darn camera on that Gitzo, MU employed. Can you tell me what else I could have done, as you suggest one can do better when one has ´learned how to use it´? There might be a case for hand-holding, insofar as the human body might absorb some shock, but that´s only after the camera has suffered it first! Also, not on for slow shutter speeds.

With respect, bokeh counts for zilch if the edges of an intentionally crisp image are not up to an acceptable standard. In most commercial work I can think of, bokeh would be an intrusion - clients want product or subject as clear and as sharp as possible and have little interest in out-of-focus areas which would take up precious space.

Maybe I missed something in my search to convince myself that it was a great buy. Or maybe it suffered from the same flexible QC that today´s digital products all seem to do.

Ciao - Rob C

Bernd B.

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« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2007, 01:44:03 pm »

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Bernd, I did use my Pentax 67 ll on a Gitzo so heavy I can hardly carry it anymore! I did have brand new lenses and though I tried everything I could think of not to have to admit to myself and my bank account that I´d made a boo boo, there was no alternative but to cut my losses. (I had the 55 and 200 lenses, if I forgot to mention that earlier.)

Hasselblad 500 cameras also have issues with mirror bounce - all such heavy objects do, it´s an unavoidable fact of both physics and life - and Hasselblad were honest enough to admit as much in their own Newsletter once and showed the difference between two shots, one with MU and the other without. But their lenses (okay, Zeiss´s lenses) never showed shutter problems converted into blur. About all that ever went wrong with them was the delayed action thinggy on the C series, which I think was discontinued on the later lenses.

But the Pentax has another, additional problem, and that´s caused by the mass of the shutter blinds. I always used the darn camera on that Gitzo, MU employed. Can you tell me what else I could have done, as you suggest one can do better when one has ´learned how to use it´? There might be a case for hand-holding, insofar as the human body might absorb some shock, but that´s only after the camera has suffered it first! Also, not on for slow shutter speeds.

With respect, bokeh counts for zilch if the edges of an intentionally crisp image are not up to an acceptable standard. In most commercial work I can think of, bokeh would be an intrusion - clients want product or subject as clear and as sharp as possible and have little interest in out-of-focus areas which would take up precious space.

Maybe I missed something in my search to convince myself that it was a great buy. Or maybe it suffered from the same flexible QC that today´s digital products all seem to do.

Ciao - Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149862\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Rob, did you have the latest versions? The 55mm with the almost flat front element? This lens is absolutely fantastic. Ok, I´m a people photographer, so I´m mostly interested in the perfomance on axis, but I also did shots where I needed the performance in the field (of the image).

The only older lens I have, a 75/4,5 shows the typical QC problems of the later 70s: you can use it only when stopped down to 8.

The newer 200mm ist also fantastic.

The procedure you describe is absolutely right. Heayy tripod (I use a Gitzo Carbon 1549) and of course MU. I do MU with almost every SLR I have (RZ + Hassy 500), but not with 35mm cameras. Handheld only with 1/500 or 1/1000 with the 200mm.

But that´s only the way it works for me. If you have better results with you solutions it´s fine. I have to admit that the mirror slap of the 67 and 67II limits the usability for handheld shots. So a non retrofocus system without any mirror as a plaubel makina might be better for your work.

About bokeh: there are lots of jobs where bokeh doesn`t count, for example when shooting with a white background in the studio. But for my portrait work the background blurr is important. A lens with a good bokeh makes a point that`s out of focus look uniform. A lens with a bad bokeh might ad a lighter ring arround the very same point. This way the background draws too much attention. You feel disturbed when looking at the subject. You client may not find words for this, but when he sees pictures of another photographer, he might feel that this other photographer did a better job.

Bernd
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Bernd B.

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« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2007, 01:46:13 pm »

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I got my H3D39 today and I might say from my first impressions that a drum scanned Pentax 67 Portra 400NC is by far superior to a H3D at iso 400.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149845\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sorry, here I was wrong. After comparing again, I would better say they are equal.
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Dustbak

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« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2007, 02:48:19 pm »

 Now, lets wait another month and see how you feel about it. By that time you should be able to draw every bit of quality out of your files.
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hubell

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« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2007, 03:24:42 pm »

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Sorry, here I was wrong. After comparing again, I would better say they are equal.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150280\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Try turning off ALL sharpening in Flexcolor, processing out the files as TIFFs and then using Smart Sharpen in Photoshop on the files. Bump the Amount up to 500%, adjust the Radius to taste, and then fine tune the Amount. I generally find an Amount of 100%-250% and a Radius of between 1.0 and 1.5 to work well, at least with landscape images.  I then use another round of sharpening with Photokit Sharpener before printing.

Bernd B.

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« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2007, 05:03:35 pm »

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Now, lets wait another month and see how you feel about it. By that time you should be able to draw every bit of quality out of your files.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150288\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I spent almost an entire week to get the color negatives of one two hour portrait session developped, make my own contact sheets, scan them on a flatbed, send them to the client for selection and then make six drumscans. I like that kind of work, but I hope the H3D gives me more time for other things soon.
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John Camp

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« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2007, 09:10:15 pm »

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I might consider putting film through my Rollei if I go to a particularly dangerous location where I'd be uncomfortable with a digital back.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149672\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Could you explain this? Are you talking about something like dropping it in the ocean? Or going to Iraq? Just curious...

JC
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nicolaasdb

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« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2007, 04:15:54 am »

my film days were over when I met my now wife....she pushed me into digital about 5 years ago, with a shitty D100...she was sick and tired of me spending days in the darkroom. I loved it..it was my getaway. I loved the smell and collaboration with other photographers/printers....I always saw the images before the ended up in the mags. But this was when i was living in NYC.
I switched from the D100 to the ds1 MKII about 1 1/2 years later (now over 2 years ago) and it was like switching from a snap shot to a real camera...but I still missed the film days....about 1 yr ago I made my ds1mkII into a backup camera when I purchased a Leaf 65 back....with an Mamiya AFDII and a 67proII........this was the first time I felt like I was back! (like in my film days).

I think that I would be very afraid to shoot film right now...since I will have to give the film to a LAB to develop...can you imagine..having no backups!??!? You just drop off a $50K job and have nothing  but a piece of paper telling you just dropped of 20-30-40 rolls??? And what if they screw it up in processing??? Man I can't sleep tonite thinking about going back to film!!

Anyways now I am a sucker for instant gratification (like my clients!) and I bought 10 packs of polaroids about 1 yr ago....to shoot with my 67...guess what?? Yes used 1 pack! can't even remember where I stored the other 9.

Sorry for my blah blah blah....but reading about film makes me feeling nostalgic!

Quality right now is better with digital (depending what you are shooting with) then film.... especially now with all the new software out there.

Just my .2 cents
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godtfred

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« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2007, 08:05:00 am »

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I spent almost an entire week to get the color negatives of one two hour portrait session developped, make my own contact sheets, scan them on a flatbed, send them to the client for selection and then make six drumscans. I like that kind of work, but I hope the H3D gives me more time for other things soon.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150306\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not counting time to create image content and ideas, I'd say using the H3D doing the same type work (two hour portrait session) my timeframes would look like this:

Rigging light: 1/2 hour.
Session: 2 hours.
De-rig: 20 min.
Modifying in flex for preview: 15 min.
Saving preview files: 2 min.
Creating a .pdf contact sheet for mailing to client: 15 min.
Waiting a day or two for client to decide: a day or two...
Returning to flexcolor and performing RAW file processing on image selection: 1/2 hour.
Editing up between one and six images: sometimes 1 hour for six images, sometimes 6 hours for 1...
Burning and sending off a DVD: 20 minutes.

-axel
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Axel Bauer
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Bernd B.

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« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2007, 12:32:14 pm »

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Creating a .pdf contact sheet for mailing to client: 15 min.

-axel
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Do you create the .pdf contact sheets in flexcolor? Usually I send small preview jpegs to the client.

Bernd
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godtfred

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« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2007, 01:02:46 pm »

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Do you create the .pdf contact sheets in flexcolor? Usually I send small preview jpegs to the client.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=150417\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I automate it using the Contact sheet II and PDF Presentation automation scripts in Photoshop. (Can also be started from within bridge.) Exporting small .tif previews from Flexcolor is a snap, you can convert these to .jpg when using the PDF presentation in Photoshop, if not the .pdf you send off will be huge!

I set the page size to fit within an A4 page in the Contact Sheet function, this lets the client print sheets at his/her location, making everything quick and easy. Only thing that is difficult sometimes is judging small details on the contact sheets when printed, so I have to make sure no shots that are out of focus or have similar goof's follow through to the client...

If the number of images is not too great, and the client is in a hurry, I sometimes just use the webpage funcionality in Photoshop and upload a small gallery to my site based on the flexcolor previews.

-axel
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 01:04:45 pm by godtfred »
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Cedric

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« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2007, 04:37:17 pm »

Yes I'm still using films whose look are very difficult to replicate digitally such as Tri-X.

Also I'm using 4x5 slides again because I miss the viewcamera possibilities in MF and 35mm.

It's a sight to behold on a lighttable.

Well scanned and post processed it still has more details than 39MP backs, and a quality which is simply different from digital.

In addition, it is a good way to keep skills and creativity sharp: just shoot 4x5 with one sheet film per subject and no bracketing. It's another rhythm than digital and it's quite fun too.
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Frank Doorhof

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« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2007, 05:25:24 pm »

Well this weekend I played a bit more with the Ilford 400 and 3200 delta pro B&W.

In the states I did some shots with the Portra400VC from Kodak.

I scan the negatives with the Epson Perfection V700 on 3.5mm distance from the glass (VERY important otherwise the scans look way too soft).

It's not BETTER than digital in color, sharpness, cleaness etc.

HOWEVER I prefer the look above digital for the more gritty stuff and it gives me the possibility to shoot at ISO800 and up with my Mamiya

I have made several prints on A2 and A3+ and the results really struck me, they are razorsharp and the LOOK and FEEL of the black and white film is just what the doctor ordered for the more gritty stuff I love to do sometimes.

With the Leaf I can get ultra clean and sharp shots in the studio with amazing dynamic range and an almost clinical look.
With film I can just put in the film and shoot outside and get a wonderful look and feel also.

I have ordered more film to just keep experimenting.
I don't see myself doing alot on film but for my personal stuff and just to play arround I love it (more than I expected to be honest).
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amsp

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« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2007, 05:36:44 pm »

Exactly my own experience (except the wife and shitty D100 part). I can still remember the anxiety, worrying that the lab would fuck up the film. I would also like to add that digital files hold up much better when enlarged.


Quote
my film days were over when I met my now wife....she pushed me into digital about 5 years ago, with a shitty D100...she was sick and tired of me spending days in the darkroom. I loved it..it was my getaway. I loved the smell and collaboration with other photographers/printers....I always saw the images before the ended up in the mags. But this was when i was living in NYC.
I switched from the D100 to the ds1 MKII about 1 1/2 years later (now over 2 years ago) and it was like switching from a snap shot to a real camera...but I still missed the film days....about 1 yr ago I made my ds1mkII into a backup camera when I purchased a Leaf 65 back....with an Mamiya AFDII and a 67proII........this was the first time I felt like I was back! (like in my film days).

I think that I would be very afraid to shoot film right now...since I will have to give the film to a LAB to develop...can you imagine..having no backups!??!? You just drop off a $50K job and have nothing  but a piece of paper telling you just dropped of 20-30-40 rolls??? And what if they screw it up in processing??? Man I can't sleep tonite thinking about going back to film!!

Anyways now I am a sucker for instant gratification (like my clients!) and I bought 10 packs of polaroids about 1 yr ago....to shoot with my 67...guess what?? Yes used 1 pack! can't even remember where I stored the other 9.

Sorry for my blah blah blah....but reading about film makes me feeling nostalgic!

Quality right now is better with digital (depending what you are shooting with) then film.... especially now with all the new software out there.

Just my .2 cents
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« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 05:38:00 pm by amsp »
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Anders_HK

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« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2007, 11:34:31 pm »

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It's not BETTER than digital in color, sharpness, cleaness etc.

HOWEVER I prefer the look above digital for the more gritty stuff and it gives me the possibility to shoot at ISO800 and up with my Mamiya

[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Frank,

Good to hear of your shooting with film   . For COLOR: try FUJI SLIDES. Negative film per my experience is flat in comparison. The colors will likely amaze you... and likely beat your Leaf. Care to bet??

For lanscapes and scenery, nothing may beat Fuji Velvia 50 and its true magic. There is a new Velvia 50 that is very identical to the classic Velvia 50 that was discontinued a few years before. My first rolls: simply awesome.

I just found some Fuji Astia in Hong Kong. That one is for portraits but should be good at capturing landscapes with the flim's low contrast abilities. Read here: [a href=\"http://www.vividlight.com/articles/2814.htm]http://www.vividlight.com/articles/2814.htm[/url]
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/professio...astia_100f.html

Up to ISO800??? How about these:
Up to 4800 ISO - Provia 400F can be "push-processed up to +3 stops, and even up to +3 1/2 stops depending on the scenes" per Fuji http://www.fujifilm.com/products/professio...rovia_400f.html
Up to 1600 ISO - Provia 400X. http://www.fujifilmusa.com/JSP/fuji/epartn...oductProvia.jsp

Regretably they do not fit in my ZD camera, but... I can ensure that Velvia 50 ISO is truly lovely in 6x7 from my Mamiya 7II   .

Regards
Anders
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John Camp

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« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2007, 12:28:28 am »

There's a "like new" Mamiya 7 II on e-bay right now with bidding at a bit over $900 for the body with an 80mm lens.  For the price of a top-end Nikon digital body you could get a couple of 7's and a range of lenses...I once hungered for one of these, and now, I just can't see myself doing film again -- and that's after doing it for forty years.

JC
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david o

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« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2007, 12:54:17 am »

I still shoot film in MF and digital in 35mm.
And I love the mood of film. There is something else. I don't know what exactly. A feeling.
I loved the Mam7. Compact, light, good lens. That makes me think that Mam have/had a good range of camera.
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