Z3100 Color Help Please

[casterle]

I've offered to print a small (2' x 4') banner for a friend to hang in front of her store. I laid out the text using Inkscape, saved the banner as .png and brought it into Photoshop so I could add effects.

The main type color is red with black edging, to be printed on Breathing Color Premium Vinyl. I've calibrated and profiled the media (with APS), and my monitor has been calibrated with the eye-one that came with the Z3100ps.

My problem is that when I soft proof the banner in Photoshop, my nice red changes to a red-orange. If I change to a different profile, the reds become red again, but changing back to the Vinyl profile returns the color to orange.

Is there any way to get my reds to print as red on this media?

TIA!

[rdonson]

I've offered to print a small (2' x 4') banner for a friend to hang in front of her store. I laid out the text using Inkscape, saved the banner as .png and brought it into Photoshop so I could add effects.

The main type color is red with black edging, to be printed on Breathing Color Premium Vinyl. I've calibrated and profiled the media (with APS), and my monitor has been calibrated with the eye-one that came with the Z3100ps.

My problem is that when I soft proof the banner in Photoshop, my nice red changes to a red-orange. If I change to a different profile, the reds become red again, but changing back to the Vinyl profile returns the color to orange.

Is there any way to get my reds to print as red on this media?

TIA!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149194\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Softproof is showing you what the reds are going to look like.  This is normal.  

You'll want to fool with the red hue/saturation as an adjustment to get them to look acceptable to you.  Once you're ok with how they look in softproof then you can go ahead an print.  

Its unlikely the vinyl media will give you reds that will look as nice as what you created.  You should be able to adjust to get something acceptable though.

[casterle]

You'll want to fool with the red hue/saturation as an adjustment to get them to look acceptable to you.  Once you're ok with how they look in softproof then you can go ahead an print. 

Its unlikely the vinyl media will give you reds that will look as nice as what you created.  You should be able to adjust to get something acceptable though.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149233\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, Ron. The hue/saturation hint was what I needed (I think - I'll have to wait 'til later to try this).

Presumably, the z3100 is putting down red ink where it's called for in my image, no? If so, can you tell me how the media can make such a great difference in the appearance of the color? I mean, the media *looks* white to me, so shouldn't the red ink color the media red?

BTW, I printed the first few inches of the sign just to see how it looked as-is. I'm happy to say that the orange on the banner closely matches the orange on my screen, and the drop shadows and black borders on the lettering (photoshopped to look reflective) are nothing short of breathtaking.

[rdonson]

Presumably, the z3100 is putting down red ink where it's called for in my image, no?

If so, can you tell me how the media can make such a great difference in the appearance of the color? I mean, the media *looks* white to me, so shouldn't the red ink color the media red?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, the Z3100 is putting down red ink where it's called for.  The challenge is that some of the values in the red on your monitor are outside the values the printer can produce on that particular media.  They're "out of gamut".  

The white of the media isn't the only determining factor.  The coating has a lot more to do with it.  Also our brains are easily fooled.  White is a relative term and you shouldn't trust your eyes all that much in this case.  A spectro measurement is far more reliable a measure.

What rendering intent were you softproofing and printing with?  I would think relative colorimetric would be a good choice and it will help fool the eye with the white.

The media doesn't have the gamut of your image.  That's why we run gamut warning on certain images.  Add that to the fact that your monitor has a much higher contrast ratio than the media and we're at the point where things won't print as you'd like them.  Its all part of the fun of color management.

Softproofing gives as good a representation as possible today but its not perfect.  We have to add some knowledge and experience to it to get the best possible prints.

Gamut was difficult for me to understand until I could "see" it.  That's where the demo version of [a href=\"http://www2.chromix.com/colorthink/download/?-session=SessID:A9C8AD4E191fb149E3gYL1019176]Chromix ColorThink[/url] came in very handy.

[casterle]

some of the values in the red on your monitor are outside the values the printer can produce on that particular media.  They're "out of gamut". 

That's a great piece of information. I just found out how to turn on the gamut warning in PS & see that the only color IN gamut is the black border on the lettering!

A spectro measurement is far more reliable a measure.

Is there some way I can use the eye-one that came with my z3100ps to do this?

What rendering intent were you softproofing and printing with?  I would think relative colorimetric would be a good choice and it will help fool the eye with the white.

I'm using Perceptual - I don't remember changing it so this must be the default. I'll give relative colorimetric a shot.

Gamut was difficult for me to understand until I could "see" it.  That's where the demo version of Chromix ColorThink came in very handy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149344\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've downloaded the demo. I've bought a book called 'Color Confidence' but haven't had a chance to crack the cover yet (I've got a couple of books I need to work through for my job first).

Thanks for all your help, I think you've got me heading in the right direction!

-Leroy

[rdonson]

Leroy,  I'm glad you found the post helpful.  This site has some serious color gurus in attendance.  I'm just a newbie in CM but hopefully learning.

Is there some way I can use the eye-one that came with my z3100ps to do this?

Not that I've discovered.  Usually it requires the standalone spectro and software.  There may be a way of reading your in printer created profiles but I haven't explored that.  The profile is actually text.  

I've downloaded the demo. I've bought a book called 'Color Confidence' but haven't had a chance to crack the cover yet (I've got a couple of books I need to work through for my job first).

That's a good book by Tim Grey.  I've got it in my library as well.  Another good book is 'Color Management for Photographers" by Andrew Rodney.  Very practical and approachable.    The bible for color management is "Real World Color Management" by Bruce Fraser, Chris Murphy and Fred Bunting.  A warning though.  The first time reading it will make your head hurt.  

[Harry Carpenter]

Try printing using a different profile i.e one of the supplied HP profiles to see if the reds print correctly.

I had huge snags with a home made profile for Kodak Lustre where the reds were just dreadful and I now just print using the HP Pro Satin profile. The colours are now very accurate.

I dont know what the nearest HP profile is but just try the pro satin or gloss and see.
If you do this and the colours are correct then it is the profile that is at fault which sort of negates some of the benefits of inbuilt calibration.

Good luck.

[casterle]

Try printing using a different profile i.e one of the supplied HP profiles to see if the reds print correctly.

I had huge snags with a home made profile for Kodak Lustre where the reds were just dreadful and I now just print using the HP Pro Satin profile. The colours are now very accurate.

I dont know what the nearest HP profile is but just try the pro satin or gloss and see.
If you do this and the colours are correct then it is the profile that is at fault which sort of negates some of the benefits of inbuilt calibration.

Good luck.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149446\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Harry,

I tried printing with the Pro Satin profile you recommended. The red still isn't exactly red, but it's a lot closer than it was before.

I find this really confusing. I did an APS profile using the largest patch set (918?), which as I understood thing would give me the best results possible on that media. How can I get 'better' results using a totally different profile?

-Leroy