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Author Topic: CS3 printing  (Read 14418 times)

DarkPenguin

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CS3 printing
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2007, 07:23:56 pm »

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Lisa:

Try using XP's "restore" to get you back to a date where you could print directly.  Confirm you can print from XP again, then run ONLY the XP udpates to get you current again and see if you can still print afterward.  If you can, my suspicions were wrong.  If you can't, I'll be looking a few apologies  

PS: and now you know why I don't post here anymore...

PPS: For all you DRM naysayers, here's a little test for you to run --- move about 1Gig of images from your XP machine to a relatively fast external drive and record the total time it takes.  Now put those same 1G of images on a Vista machine and time that move to the same external drive, even if the Vista machine is a faster box.  Get back to us with your results.
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What makes you think it is related to DRM?

There is a vista bug with moving large files.  It will slow to a crawl.  Even if you do it disk to disk.  Should be fixed with a service pack.
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Mark D Segal

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CS3 printing
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2007, 10:38:38 pm »

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Lisa:

PS: and now you know why I don't post here anymore...

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149241\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jack, a person of your calibre and experience should have no qualms about posting in this community. Most of us I think are reasonable people - even if we don't necessarily always agree with what eachother says. Don't let a few intemperate remarks colour the whole experience and usefulness of dialoguing here.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Fred Ragland

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CS3 printing
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2007, 10:57:37 pm »

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Jack, a person of your calibre and experience should have no qualms about posting in this community...[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=149272\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jack, I've noticed fewer posts from you and attributed it to your travel or business. It would be a great loss to us all if you didn't post here.  Your experience and thoughtful insights are very welcome.

Fred
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JeffKohn

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« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2007, 11:57:08 pm »

OK, if you want a more detailed response, here you go. The DRM added in Vista is targeted at content formats that actually support DRM, primarily video and audio (although I suppose there could be some image format out there that supports DRM). But the file formats in use 99% of photographers have no DRM built in and are handled no differently under Vista than previous operating systems, just like MP3's still work without DRM in Vista or any other OS despite the fact that some new audio formats have content protection (iTunes, anybody?).

Formats like JPG, TIFF, PSD etc have no DRM support built into the file format, so if you think DRM is somehow coming into play, I would very much like for you to try to explain what exactly you are suggesting that Vista is doing with these files?

As for your network file copy test, that doesn't prove anything about DRM. There has been speculation about the cause of these slowdowns, but I've not seen any actual proof and it's more likely that it has to do with the new status dialogs. Besides, you'll get the same results regardless for the format of the files. Are you suggesting that ALL files undergo DRM in Vista? Do you have any idea how DRM actually works?

Lets also keep in mind that this thread was about printing. Even if Vista were to somehow try to prevent printing of DRM-managed files (and again, the file formats we use are not DRM-managed), don't you think this would affect more than just CS3 if it's something the OS is doing? Why are people not having the same problem in CS2, or QImage?

Jack may have a lot of posts and be a great photographer, but that doesn't mean he knows anything about operating systems at the API level, so yes when I see such wild speculation offered with no proof to back it up, I'm going to call it nonsense.
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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CS3 printing
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2007, 12:29:20 am »

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Jack, I've noticed fewer posts from you and attributed it to your travel or business. It would be a great loss to us all if you didn't post here.  Your experience and thoughtful insights are very welcome.

Fred
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Jack,

I agree with Fred. You are definitely on the list of those I pay attention to on the LL forum. Please try to ignore the riff-raff; most of us are pretty civilized here.

Eric
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2007, 12:43:29 am »

Thanks Fred and thanks Eric.  The unfortunate fact is the "culture" that used to exist here is gone --- or more accurately perhaps, it is now outnumbered...  

~~~
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What makes you think it is related to DRM?

There is a vista bug with moving large files.  It will slow to a crawl.  Even if you do it disk to disk.  Should be fixed with a service pack.

Uh, yeah, it certianly will slow to a crawl when you try to move or delete ANY file,  and the larger the files, the slower it goes...  So what exactly do you all think "the bug" that causes that particular annoyance is?  A little searching will reveal it is... oh surprise, DRM.    Turns out "the bug" is that Vista looks inside every file - not just folders, but each FILE - for DRM.  

~
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 01:34:28 am by Jack Flesher »
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Jack
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2007, 09:48:56 am »

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Thanks Fred and thanks Eric.  The unfortunate fact is the "culture" that used to exist here is gone --- or more accurately perhaps, it is now outnumbered...

The way I see it, the culture is still here, but there are a few strident voices that often drown out the gentler ones. That is unfortunate, but I try to ignore them for the most part.

Quote
Uh, yeah, it certianly will slow to a crawl when you try to move or delete ANY file,  and the larger the files, the slower it goes...  So what exactly do you all think "the bug" that causes that particular annoyance is?  A little searching will reveal it is... oh surprise, DRM.    Turns out "the bug" is that Vista looks inside every file - not just folders, but each FILE - for DRM.
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I admit I'm no DRM expert, but your description sure sounds like the way I would expect Microsoft to implement it.

Eric
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JeffKohn

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« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2007, 10:02:43 am »

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Uh, yeah, it certianly will slow to a crawl when you try to move or delete ANY file, and the larger the files, the slower it goes... So what exactly do you all think "the bug" that causes that particular annoyance is? A little searching will reveal it is... oh surprise, DRM. Turns out "the bug" is that Vista looks inside every file - not just folders, but each FILE - for DRM.
Please cite some solid technical sources (and speculation in slashdot comments does not count). This performance issue was with the shell, you could get around it by using a command prompt, which means if it was DRM it sure wasn't very effective.

And you still haven't explained how this supposed DRM could affect printing in CS3 but not CS2 or QImage.
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Jeff Kohn
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John.Murray

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« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2007, 05:06:48 pm »

Jack:  Count me *in* as one of those who enjoy your contribution.

In regard to your DRM speculation, it's just that - one of the problems of Internet search I'm afraid, the mis-information comes up just a readily as the good stuff.  *Saying* the DRM appears in a search means nothing . . .

Here's an excellant summary of what DRM and it's relationship to Windows Vista really is:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?m=200709

This is mainly in response to a "researcher" out of New Zealand, loudly proclaiming all sorts of ills caused by Vista DRM . . . to date, he has yet to actually run a copy of Vista!, some research, eh?

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Note that this article has been continously updated since it's original post in December of 2006

I bring these links up, because I feel they are truly usefull and informative.  If you personally don't *like* Vista, thats your call - but associating a side issue with a known and well documented filecopy issue is plain wrong.  Here btw is Ms's response to the filecopy issue:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938979

I'm currently running a 32bit version of Vista SP1 beta and can report improved filecopy performance   Here's a video showing side by side comparision:

http://www.istartedsomething.com/20070928/...sp1-comparison/

As an aside, I made some  statements regarding RAID storage some time ago on this very forum - some of which were not always true, or unsubstantiated  - I was called out on it, and happily owned up to it!  *That* to me is the true spirit of a discussion forum

I'm sure you'll agree that *any* forum is best with a low "signal to noise" ratio, please take my comments as only that!

Regards - John
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 05:20:19 pm by Joh.Murray »
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