Mamiya ZD camera Kit in Stock @ B&H

[Morgan_Moore]

I have narrowed it down to the Aptus 22 pretty much or a P25/p30?

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Snook

I use a sinar back so have used none of the above - I know it is very similar to the P25 - I also have used many other Digicams

this is my reckoning.

The A22, the P25 and the Zd all use the same generation chip initially marketed as 25 ISO

You should buy none of them unless you consider them to be 50ISO your standard and 100 for emergencies

They are all excellent with studio lights and in the sun - they all also ehibit noise in the shadows

And they all lead to a certain shooting style generally involving fill flash or reflectors efectively to close the DR of the image towards the right of the histo

When you subtly ligthen the shadows in this manner you will have no noise problems -

you may darken the shadows using curves in PS to create your look in the final image

when these cameras shoot in unmodified natural light of wide DR even at 100 you will have pretty wooly shadows unless you expose well right and are happy with blown highlights (I am - they go in a lovely manner on these cameras)

The P30 is a different generation of chip - faster - that more useable in natural situations probably good for 200 and 400 emergencies

IMO only get a ZD or an A22 or a P25 if you do highly controlled shooting and at least have an assist to fill your exposure with reflectors

If you want a real 'street' camer where you can shoot wide DR scenes AS IS you will need a P30 or maybe a nikon D3

On the other hand just printed my portfolio and some of the images were kodak SLRn at 400 ISO - now that is NOISE - but after a bit of tinkling in PS can I see that noise on the prints - NO

incedentally my obsession with subtle fill flash which beats that noise problem is highly connected to my dislike of any cameras that sysnch at 125th like mamaiya

SMM

[Snook]

Thanks Morgan for the information.
I usually shoot in studio and usually under 100 asa, Never above. I always use fill flash or reflectors so that should not be a problem.
Interesting the P30 difference. I had no idea.
I was basically always interested in the P30 from the beginning but then got sold on the Aptus 22 with it's supposedly better skin tones (for fashion) and it's bigger LCD even though it is not that sharp.
The other throw off for the APtus 22 was the funky battery positioning but I can deal with that.
I agrre that it stinks that the AFD syncs @ 125.. Back in the film days I shot with Pentax 6X7 and Mamiya Pro Tl of which I had and have all the Leafshutter lens for Both. They have been collecting dust for about 6-7 years now...  
I almost went with the RZ ProIID but am not used to shooting so slow and with a waist finder prism. But the option was there and their lens sync at 400/th which would be great. That is why I was asking earlier which would be easier to adapt to a RZ in the future. But still have not figure that out yet.
In any case I have a 1DsMII and a 5D for back-up and will keep them for catalogue shoots and back-up only. I really wanted the MFDB for me and Advertising job that I can shoot slower and need maybe that extra file size and quality.
Otherwise I would just stick with the 1DsMIII as I have never had any complaints about it EVER. And I do Double page spreads all the time and billboards all over town as well as in store Posters.
I just miss the medium format and would like to get back to it some how with out breaking the bank as it will not be my only camera outfit.
That is why the ZD was interesting, but to unstable at this point.
Snook

[ynp]

Dear Sam,
 I upgraded my e22 to the e54LV version (got a new back from Sinar as a total swap) and see a lot of improvements in terms of noise at 100 ISO; still 200 ISO as highest, but much better noise control between 50-160 ISO.
Yevgeny

[bcroslin]

Morgan is dead on.

The sweet spot of the ZD is ISO 50-100. ISO 160 is really about as far as I'd go with the Dalsa chip and even then it's with the understanding that there may be noise in the shadows. My experience ink-on-paper is that the noise is not enough to show up in magazine repro.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

[Morgan_Moore]

Thanks Morgan for the information.
I usually shoot in studio and usually under 100 asa, Never above. I always use fill flash or reflectors so that should not be a problem.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Considering this I think a ZD back will work fine

my observations is that things like the purple blobs are some software effort at boosting the shadows gone very wrong

Considering P25s A22s and Sinar22s are available used for little more than the price of a new ZD back (which there are none used yet) I would go with one of them

I would not go for the P30 because, although more practical than the other backs as a primary shooting solution, there is the crop factor which not only affects the widest lens but the whole look of the system and is less appripriate to the use with view cameras should you choose to play in that direction  

You are after a secondary shooting solution after you D series gear

----

To other posters I made it clear which products I have used and never said the chips were the same - just the same generation - and I do have a 54LV and it is marginally better than an E22 but not radically different I have shot them side to side as a quick test using  brumbaer ACR to process out - maybe not a fair test

and Bob as a fan of your work and experience I take that as a compliment that I might occasionally fire in the right direction with some of my ramblings

S

[thsinar]

Dear John,

May I say that this is speculation and that I suggest anybody to try on a dide by side comparison.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

So be honest, I think you are using the Sinar ISO ratings and respective image quality to make a guess at other backs. Many other backs perform far better at higher ISOs than the Sinar.
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[Graham Mitchell]

Dear Sam,
 I upgraded my e22 to the e54LV version (got a new back from Sinar as a total swap) and see a lot of improvements in terms of noise at 100 ISO; still 200 ISO as highest, but much better noise control between 50-160 ISO.
Yevgeny
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147683\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm glad to hear this as I expect to do the same upgrade, and this is the first user report I have seen. Spasibo! Was 50-160 a typo? Should be 50-200, right?

[ynp]

It was a typo. Sorry, I am travelling and use my Phone to post. The 54LV still loves a lot of light, nothing changed too much. But the improvements are noticeble if marginal
Yevgeny

I'm glad to hear this as I expect to do the same upgrade, and this is the first user report I have seen. Spasibo! Was 50-160 a typo? Should be 50-200, right?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Morgan_Moore]

I'm glad to hear this as I expect to do the same upgrade, [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So now you have two user reports

"marginally better than an E22 but not radically different "

"the improvements are noticeble if marginal"

We both chose the word marginal !

I did do a side by side my 54LV with another users E22 he is wondering about the switch - his answer no - my anser - yes - reason - me handheld shooter- him tripod shooter

Anyway we are hijacking the OPs thread

SMM

[Snook]

The Kit with camera says "In Stock" still, Not sure if they got here this morning or if they were all sold out?
Just thought some would like to know
Snook

[bcroslin]

my observations is that things like the purple blobs are some software effort at boosting the shadows gone very wrong

I was told that the purple blobs were due to a hardware issue and have been fixed. I shot the lifestyle shoot from hell yesterday and ended up having to shoot in the dark so I'll have some real feedback about shadow noise and 2 sec - 10 sec expsoures.

I'll have something to say later today hopefully.

(and Morgan, if what you write here are ramblings I'd love to hear you when you're trying!)

[Snook]

Greta Bob... Please share any information..
Thank you
Snook
Zd camera or Back?
 

[bcroslin]

ZD back.

[bcroslin]

I've posted my findings in this new thread:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=20472

please be gentle.

[Mike Chini]

Just shot a job with the A22 and it is just wonderful.  Beautiful image quality at 50, 100 and 200.  I actually prefer the look of it to the P45 which I find to be very 'digital' looking for lack of a better term.  If the ZD can take advantage of the Dalsa chip, it should be wonderful image-quality wise.

[Quentin]

Just shot a job with the A22 and it is just wonderful.  Beautiful image quality at 50, 100 and 200.  I actually prefer the look of it to the P45 which I find to be very 'digital' looking for lack of a better term.  If the ZD can take advantage of the Dalsa chip, it should be wonderful image-quality wise.
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I just shot an image for a book cover with the ZD camera - perfect image quality.

Quentin

[Mike Chini]

Maybe I'm completely off here but I just prefer the Dalsa chip to the Kodak for some reason!  It seems as if the P45 (never tried the P30) just has a very digital look (artifacts?) to it when I zoom in on images.  Also, the color rendition seems to be more film-like with the Dalsa chip.  This is all on location jobs.  In the studio, i can't seem to tell much difference between any of them.