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Snook

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« on: October 16, 2007, 12:35:17 pm »
OK guys , I am getting ready to jump the gun and either go Phase P30,P25 refurbished or Leaf Aptus 22.
Just wanted to get one last opinion from all the wise guys here as to which is better?
Anybody want to add their personal experiences with either or both and any cons and pros of both.
Un fortunately I have to make my decision with out even being able to try either out so I am relying on forums.
Where I live I have no option to try anything out and do not have time to go to the US and try something out, so I have decided to just get one or the other.
I like the idea that leaf is supported by many Programs, even photoshop supposedly.
But I also have been using C-1 for many years and know it very well.
Here is a little history of what I shoot.
Been shooting Canon 1Ds 1DsMII for several years. I have recently bought a Mamiya AFDII with 55-100 and 35mm lens. Plan on getting the 120mm Macro for sure.
I shoot Fashion and plan on keeping the 1DsMII for catalogue etc.. I want the MFDB for advertising clients and personal fashion stuff.
I do like to shoot tethered in studio only.
I never shoot above 100 asa even with my 5D and 1DsMII.. occasionally when necessary I shoot asa 400 but rarely.
Not sure if I am forgetting anything but I sure do miss medium format from the film days and am exciting to get back into it.
Thanks for any help, I would greatly appreciate it as I have no options but you all..
Thanks
Snook
Forgot to add that I like the 25 asa option on the Leaf as I can bring down shutter speed and still over power the Sun in daylight.
Also there might be a remote chance of getting an Mamiya RZ proIID in the future. Which would be a less hassle to buy an adapter for using it with an RZ also?? Not so important but might help way one over the other....
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 12:38:47 pm by Snook »
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pss

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2007, 01:01:14 pm »
you should really test them...everybody who decided for one or the other had their reasons, but they might not be important to you....
i find the P30 the best all around back for the best price....tons of resolution, fast shooting, high ASA, zero problems, the most stable software package, files can be read in LR, CS..can't go wrong....
as you know i now shoot with the RZ exclusively....
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Graham Mitchell

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2007, 01:04:59 pm »
The P30 has a higher crop factor which makes wide shooting more difficult and I believe it's also unsuitable for use on a view camera with tilt/shift due to the microlenses. If those issues don't matter to you, great. Just balancing the review
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Snook

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2007, 02:01:49 pm »
Hey Paul I actually bought the Mamiya from you as you may know..
You stated that P30 files can be opened in several programs..? I thought that Phase files could only be opened in C-1?
You can open them in Photoshop cs3 RAW converter as well..
Did not know that.. Can you confirm that with me.
Thanks
Snook
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mcfoto

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 03:56:54 pm »
Hi
Shooting fashion........Aptus 22 @1.2 f/s. I would consider the 545s which is the same back but shoots at about .9 f/s. The new leaf version 11 is excellent. I was shooting yesterday with the Aptus 22, V 11 & the Mamiya 645 AFDII. I believe Leaf has the fastest backs on the market especially with there latest S series backs. I shot with the Aptus 65 but I found it too slow compared to the Aptus 22.
Then again the Aptus 65 is an older generation back now. The skin quality on the Leaf is beautiful.
Thanks Denis
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 03:59:55 pm by mcfoto »
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Denis Montalbetti
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pss

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2007, 04:10:33 pm »
Quote
Hey Paul I actually bought the Mamiya from you as you may know..
You stated that P30 files can be opened in several programs..? I thought that Phase files could only be opened in C-1?
You can open them in Photoshop cs3 RAW converter as well..
Did not know that.. Can you confirm that with me.
Thanks
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146401\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

open in CS3 RAW and adobe Lightroom....no problem...P+files as well with the latest release...i only use C1 to shoot tethered into LR...from then on it is all LR for me.....

P30 has a slightly (barely noticeable) crop factor, really only an issue with WA and according to phase does not like T/S (movements)......
i would also recomend looking at the P21...really a great back a friend of mine shoot swith one www.rainerhosch.com...check it out....faster then the P30, same size, 18mpix....

eitehr way, really test each system.....and don't forget about the emotion/sinar backs either...
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Ken Doo

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2007, 04:47:46 pm »
The P30 is a great MFDB.  I use a Phase P30 with Mamiya 645AFD.

Just to make clear, the P30 may produce some difficulites with LF view cameras because of the microlenses.  The P30 is absolutely fine with MF t/s lenses such as the Hartblei 45mm t/s super rotator---I have had no problems whatsoever.
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Photomangreg

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2007, 05:30:32 pm »
Snook,

Where are you located that you can't get to a dealer and try these out?  You're talking about a pretty major investment here!
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jonstewart

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2007, 06:06:19 pm »
Hey Snook, check your Mamiya body has the right firmware to run the Phase back, if it isn't a new one. You can get this done while you're waiting on the back to come, not after you're got it! (Like me! Cough Cough!)
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Jon Stewart
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Snook

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2007, 06:49:13 pm »
PSS... Do you know if mine has the right firmware update??
Seriously I have not even seen the camera yet. It was shipped to my family's house and forget my Father checking the firmware update...???
But it would be really important to know as I should have it updated before I ship everything..
Paul do you know if it had the latest update?
I know it is a AFDII...
Thanks for the heads up..:+}
Snook
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Graham Mitchell

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2007, 11:51:26 pm »
I would (and did) get a Sinar e22 over a P25 for a few reasons: adapter system gives you flexibility over different mounts, built in 3GB solid state memory, better LCD screen, and the e22 is a lot faster (1.2s per shot for the e22, 1.7s for the P25).
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Natasa Stojsic

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2007, 12:12:01 am »
Quote
OK guys , I am getting ready to jump the gun and either go Phase P30,P25 refurbished or Leaf Aptus 22.
Just wanted to get one last opinion from all the wise guys here as to which is better?
Anybody want to add their personal experiences with either or both and any cons and pros of both.
Un fortunately I have to make my decision with out even being able to try either out so I am relying on forums.
Where I live I have no option to try anything out and do not have time to go to the US and try something out, so I have decided to just get one or the other.
I like the idea that leaf is supported by many Programs, even photoshop supposedly.
But I also have been using C-1 for many years and know it very well.
Here is a little history of what I shoot.
Been shooting Canon 1Ds 1DsMII for several years. I have recently bought a Mamiya AFDII with 55-100 and 35mm lens. Plan on getting the 120mm Macro for sure.
I shoot Fashion and plan on keeping the 1DsMII for catalogue etc.. I want the MFDB for advertising clients and personal fashion stuff.
I do like to shoot tethered in studio only.
I never shoot above 100 asa even with my 5D and 1DsMII.. occasionally when necessary I shoot asa 400 but rarely.
Not sure if I am forgetting anything but I sure do miss medium format from the film days and am exciting to get back into it.
Thanks for any help, I would greatly appreciate it as I have no options but you all..
Thanks
Snook
Forgot to add that I like the 25 asa option on the Leaf as I can bring down shutter speed and still over power the Sun in daylight.
Also there might be a remote chance of getting an Mamiya RZ proIID in the future. Which would be a less hassle to buy an adapter for using it with an RZ also?? Not so important but might help way one over the other....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146383\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I was impressed with the Leaf Aptus 65s everything with regards to files, setting up shooting was great.

When the search for quality was over, I realized two things that bothered me, first the price and the second the way that battery stands out because it just feels awkward.

Regardless if you go Leaf Aptus 65s or Phase P30+, I'm sure your end result will look great!!!
 
All I can hope for Hasselblad, Sinar, Leaf & Phase is to realize that they can't continue to drive the customers into $20,000 to $30,000 investments FOREVER!!!
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H1/A75 Guy

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2007, 12:46:03 pm »
Quote
Just wanted to get one last opinion from all the wise guys here as to which is better?
Unfortunately I have to make my decision with out even being able to try either out so I am relying on forums. Where I live I have no option to try anything out and do not have time to go to the US and try something out, so I have decided to just get one or the other.
I want the MFDB for advertising clients and personal fashion stuff.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146383\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The final decision is you get the A22 for the best and most film-like fashion and skintone file. If you are not Mac based you give the PC to your children with your blessings, not only so you can use LC11, but because you should have been Mac based years ago (I also live across the street from Apple headquarters). If you are not happy with the A22 let me know. I'll reimburse you your costs for sending you down the wrong road.

David
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pss

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2007, 02:21:54 pm »
Quote
PSS... Do you know if mine has the right firmware update??
Seriously I have not even seen the camera yet. It was shipped to my family's house and forget my Father checking the firmware update...???
But it would be really important to know as I should have it updated before I ship everything..
Paul do you know if it had the latest update?
I know it is a AFDII...
Thanks for the heads up..:+}
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146459\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

it is the latest version of the camera (645afdII) and i shot with the P30 on it without any problems....i believe there were some problems with the 645afd....and maybe with the 28mm lens? not sure about that....
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Snook

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2007, 04:55:23 pm »
Quote
it is the latest version of the camera (645afdII) and i shot with the P30 on it without any problems....i believe there were some problems with the 645afd....and maybe with the 28mm lens? not sure about that....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146688\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks alot....Pss...:+}
I have heard so many times that the Skintones and "Film" like look is better with the Aptus 22..
Will let you guys know what my decision is in the end.. That is if you guys care....?:+}
One dealer told me he already sold all his Aptus 22's...?
But I am sure they will pop up again...
Thanks guys for your inputs..
Snook
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jonstewart

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2007, 04:58:37 pm »
Quote
it is the latest version of the camera (645afdII) and i shot with the P30 on it without any problems....i believe there were some problems with the 645afd....and maybe with the 28mm lens? not sure about that....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146688\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

FYI, mine is an AFDII, and has just gone to the service centre for firmware upgrade. If yours worked with a P30, I'm sure it'll be fine!

(Mine just locked the camera and back, after popping the mirror up (judging by the sound))

We'll see what happens when it returns!
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Jon Stewart
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jonstewart

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2007, 05:00:32 pm »
Quote
...but because you should have been Mac based years ago...

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146656\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sorry David, that's nonsense. Whether Mac or PC (well, they're all pc's now) is right depends on a number of factors.
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Jon Stewart
 If only life were so simple.

Snook

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2007, 07:43:56 pm »
Thanks...
By the way I have been Macintosh since the beginning and currently have 6 Mac computers between studio and home... All the flavors..:+}
Snook
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Doug Peterson

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2007, 01:04:45 pm »
I would add that you should consider a used back as well as refurbished. You'll pay less than you would pay for the refurbished back; although I would still go through a dealer so you get a back with a known history an an ear to yell into when you have problems. We have a constantly changing stock of used back, as will many dealers.

I would also point out that files from both P and P+ series can be opened in the most recent version of Adobe Camera Raw. This is a fairly recent development.

Doug

Doug@CaptureIntegration.com
www.captureintegration.com
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Snook

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Final Decision.. P30,P25 or Aptus 22 HELP!
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2007, 02:00:26 pm »
Thanks Doug. I should have stated that I am looking for a Refurbished back for sure.
I also do not think the + series are worth the upgrade from my researching. I know others may have a different opinion, but from what I can see there is not enough difference to pay for a new + series.
In any case I am leaning torwards the Leaf as many have told me it is better with skin tones and I do mainly fashion stuff. So that helps me.
Thanks
Snook
One dealer had some aptus 22 but said they went really fast...
I guess I'll have to wait until some more show up.

PS. Anybody know what the Leaf S series go for more or less? I need the smallest of them all which I beleive is the 54s?
How can I find prices for Leaf S series backs just to have an idea?
Thanks alot
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 02:04:50 pm by Snook »
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