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Author Topic: IDS MKIII or new 5D?  (Read 15607 times)

condit79

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IDS MKIII or new 5D?
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2007, 12:47:12 pm »

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Canon has two big pro markets ... the photojournalist / news / sports guys and the studio / advertising guys. They have a pro body for each market ... 1D for the former, 1Ds for the latter.
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You're forgetting the huge market which is weddings and portraits.  That's why the 5d and 40d do and will continue to do well.  Not everyone requires a 1 series body that works as a pro and some prefer the smaller form of the non 1 series cameras.
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kmanphoto

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« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2007, 11:41:11 pm »

I bought a 5D about a year and a half ago. It replaced my 20D and I was very happy with the exchange.

So anyway, what do you all think?

soooooooooo --- here is my problem with alot of these discussions ------
as a 5D owner since it came it out 2 years ago,,,,,,,   I love the images this cam produces and see no reason to upgrade no matter what the next best thing is -- why you may ask??? because I see no reason to spend another 2K with trade in on somthing that is going to only marginally be better after the pixel peepers go after it,  and you guys know it if you are being honest with yourself

kman
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Kent Whiting

dwdallam

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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2007, 03:05:23 am »

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This is correct - it's a niche camera. I wouldn't want more than 8 or 10 megapixels of data for most of what I shoot. What I want is a very fast, very responsive camera with instant AF, a huge buffer, and that's mostly impervious to the weather and to daily bumps and bruises. The 1-D series has been aimed at photojournalists and sports photographers since the beginning.

Plus you can use it to defend yourself against muggers....
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Yes, that makes sense.
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dwdallam

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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2007, 03:09:26 am »

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I bought a 5D about a year and a half ago. It replaced my 20D and I was very happy with the exchange.

So anyway, what do you all think?

soooooooooo --- here is my problem with alot of these discussions ------
as a 5D owner since it came it out 2 years ago,,,,,,,   I love the images this cam produces and see no reason to upgrade no matter what the next best thing is -- why you may ask??? because I see no reason to spend another 2K with trade in on somthing that is going to only marginally be better after the pixel peepers go after it,  and you guys know it if you are being honest with yourself

kman
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What about the 4X better tonality for landscape shots, specifically sunsets, and the additional pixels, if say it goes to 16.7MP? This is no pixel peeper phenomenon. More pixels mean more cropping ability, which is great for enlargements. Plus the tonality is a vast improvement. Tonality is a major factor in landscape photography, and other high tonality jobs, such as indoor photography.

For portriats that will never go beyond 12 x 18, I agree with you. Any camera with a good enough processor will suffice at 8MP and lower, such as the 1D.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 03:10:43 am by dwdallam »
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Rob C

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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2007, 01:29:57 pm »

"More pixels means more cropping ability,"

You see, that´s one MAJOR advantage of a long background with 35mm film: you learn to compose within what God or the maker (no pun intended, but enjoy it anyway) gave you.

However, if and when you choose to crop in tightly to some beautiful bit of body - tough out there in lanscape land, just dream on - you will start to get the most fabulous skin textures...

Ciao - Rob C

jjj

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« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2007, 04:54:00 am »

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The 5D (6D?) will separate the hobby/serious shooter from the semi pro, pro, and pro journalist type crowd. Most people not very serious about photography with time to spend doing it won't fork out the 3500.00US for the new 6D.
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Amateurs can often afford better kit than pros as they have 'proper jobs'   and if it wasn't for them, the 'pro' cameras probably wouldn't sell in enough numbers to be worth making.
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budjames

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« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2007, 05:15:13 am »

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Amateurs can often afford better kit than pros as they have 'proper jobs'   and if it wasn't for them, the 'pro' cameras probably wouldn't sell in enough numbers to be worth making.
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Ditto to that!

I'm a Certified Financial Advisor which affords me the income and the luxury of time to enjoy my travel photography hobby. I just traded in my 20D for a 40D (great camera!). I already sold my 1Ds MkII and I'm on the wait list for the a 1Ds Mk III.

Cheers.

Bud
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dwdallam

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« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2007, 05:15:33 am »

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"More pixels means more cropping ability,"

You see, that´s one MAJOR advantage of a long background with 35mm film: you learn to compose within what God or the maker (no pun intended, but enjoy it anyway) gave you.

However, if and when you choose to crop in tightly to some beautiful bit of body - tough out there in lanscape land, just dream on - you will start to get the most fabulous skin textures...

Ciao - Rob C
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Maybe you should use wet plate collodion photography, being the purist that you preach that you are: Can't crop a piece of metal very well--opps, you can crop the reproductions!

The point is, that even the best and most observant photographers in history crop. It's part of the process. And everyone who is serious about photography knows the obvious--that you always compose the best image you can at the time the image is taken.

And with 16.7 MP or even 32MP digital backs, the dream is true.. You can crop and get a nice, smooth, crisp image. Your objection is one that all "purists" have made since the inception of photography--that any technological advancement in image recording is cheating, bad photography, not real talent, etc.

And I will give you that that point of view isn't always wrong. Rank amateurs with 200 dollars can get a good flash exposure whereas even in the early 70s, that would not have happened. You'd need someone with enough skill and talent to meter the light correctly, and then use the flash correctly. Perhaps photography is dead?

It is if you take your position simply because photography seems to be an equipment factor, not a creative one. Even if it were possible for a rank amateur to get a perfectly processed image by simply pressing one button, that image may not inspire anyone. My point is that the ability to crop doesn't make one a bad photographer, nor can it make one a good photographer. It's just an option.

And one last comment on cropping, I remember back before digital, where you would always find displays with many different sizes of image, because the "professionals" all cropped differently for different affect, and composition.

When I crop, I have never violated the aspect ratio of the digital capture, and I do that because I believe that getting a shot that is good enough to be cropped to the aspect ratio is a necessary condition. But that is just my take on it. I want to preserve the ratio for some reason.  However, I'm wrong to think this way because ratios are simply predetermined standardized means to use images prints and papers, such as "wallet sized." Aspect ratio should take a back seat to aesthetic needs. For instance, landscapes generally need a wider ratio than product photography. So if you shoot a specific ratio, that being traditional film or digital, and the image needs a different ratio, you either crop or you violate the aesthetic properties of the image. This is doubly true for fine art photography, where a crop may take the form of an image 5" tall and 30" wide, for affect.

But by all means, purity at any cost. You could try tintypes if you're a real photographer.
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dwdallam

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« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2007, 05:18:19 am »

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Amateurs can often afford better kit than pros as they have 'proper jobs'   and if it wasn't for them, the 'pro' cameras probably wouldn't sell in enough numbers to be worth making.
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HAHAH, yeah, indeed!
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dwdallam

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« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2007, 03:39:31 am »

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But then, of course, there is the 7D to consider down the road.   
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Shaddap!
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alba63

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« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2007, 05:13:55 am »

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What about the 4X better tonality for landscape shots, specifically sunsets, and the additional pixels, if say it goes to 16.7MP?

What do you mean? 14bit versus 12bit? I would first want to see an example that shows the difference. 4x better gives you certainly a wrong idea.... It is like in audio when 24bit soundcards started to replace the older 16bit models. Peolle were expecting wonders, but a good high end 16bit converter beats a feature loaded mainstream 24bit card easily.

Same goes for Canon. 14bit converters probably have become cheap recently that's why everybody builds them in now, but subtle tonality and color gradation was never Canon's strenght, I would be surprised to see this changing with the newer models.

Bernie
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Ray

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« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2007, 09:00:05 am »

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When I crop, I have never violated the aspect ratio of the digital capture, and I do that because I believe that getting a shot that is good enough to be cropped to the aspect ratio is a necessary condition. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147564\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Dear me! What's the point of that?
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James Godman

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« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2007, 05:40:05 pm »

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When I crop, I have never violated the aspect ratio of the digital capture, and I do that because I believe that getting a shot that is good enough to be cropped to the aspect ratio is a necessary condition.
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I don't get this either.
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Jonathan Wienke

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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2007, 02:05:40 am »

I think it's an unnecessarily convoluted way of saying "I compose to minimize or eliminate the need for cropping later." But if he means "I never alter the original capture's aspect ratio by cropping" that is pure silliness.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 02:16:43 am by Jonathan Wienke »
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dwdallam

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« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2007, 04:12:27 am »

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Dear me! What's the point of that?
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I know, I know. It's an obsessive compulsive thing I guess. What it does it keep everything nice and orderly when framed. Everything looks "tight" on a display.

It also makes cutting matting very easy because all of the inner openings are the same, which is the reason everything looks universal, and tidy when matted and on display in numbers

I know there are times when you MUST crop to square, or other sizes than ratio, and I'm working on it!!!  

I just like working in the confines of the aspect ratio and trying to come up with interesting crops or images that fit that aspect ratio. When I go on a shoot, I look for the best possible shot that fits my medium, which is 3:2 ratio. My mind just works like that now. Although, if I had something that just would not look well I'd crop it.

This then requires me to get the best composition I can at the time I take the photograph. For some reason, my mind likes geometric symmetry, which is  inherent in all geometric shapes.  Working with a specific geometric shape or aspect ratio brings order to my mind. Having to deal with unlimited aspect ratios at the time of the shoot would prove debilitating for me.  And if I'm not thinking about the images aspect ratio at the time of the shoot, and how best to compose it, then I'd feel like I was just pressing a button at anything that looked "interesting," and then cropping to a completely different aspect ratio after the fact.  

Maybe I'm just defective in that way, like one who is color blind in that way.
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dwdallam

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« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2007, 04:12:55 am »

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I don't get this either.
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See above.
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dwdallam

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« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2007, 04:18:23 am »

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I think it's an unnecessarily convoluted way of saying "I compose to minimize or eliminate the need for cropping later." But if he means "I never alter the original capture's aspect ratio by cropping" that is pure silliness.
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For both reasons Jonathan. See explanation above.

But answer me this. If you can get an image to look good using the same aspect ratio as the medium, why change it? And I didn't say, "If there were a better aspect ratio for the image, confine it to the original." Put differently, why use a different aspect ratio if the native ratio can be used effectively--and I'm not going to say "better" because "better" is generally too subjective to be of much use.
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