Topic: Regarding Starwheels (Read 5052 times)

Harry Carpenter · « **on:** October 10, 2007, 04:31:00 pm »

Having had issues with the Z3100 starwheel marks in the past, is it only HP that uses them or do the other manufacturers also incorporate them into the drive system?
The reason I ask is that it is almost always mentioned as a problem with the HP series of printers but rarely Epson or Canon.

klocke · « **Reply #1 on:** October 10, 2007, 05:06:31 pm »

Quote

The reason I ask is that it is almost always mentioned as a problem with the HP series of printers but rarely Epson or Canon.
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It depends, the larger EPSONs: 4000, 4800 for sure and the larger ones I assume as well, do not produce star wheel marks.
The smaller EPSONS, the 3800 for example do produce them (mine does).

The IPF5000/5100/6100 seem to do without starwheels on the print surface as well.

I had a Designjet 30 that was able to produce star wheel marks on some papers. I had expxected that they would have improved on this with the Z3100.

Regards
Stefan

madmanchan · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2007, 06:22:51 pm »

It also depends on what feed one is using. On the 3800, these so-called "pizza wheel" marks can appear when using the Auto Sheet Feed or Rear Feed, but not the Front Feed (since the pizza wheel mechanism is bypassed when using the FF). Papers with softer coatings, such as the Innova FibaPrint papers, are more susceptible to having the marks show up.

SeanPuckett · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2007, 07:56:50 pm »

Just a nutbar thought -- what goes wrong when you just take the starwheel mechanism out of a z3100? Massive head strikes or .... ?

Harris · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2007, 09:03:06 pm »

Have been using a 24" Z3100 for about 5 months - had my first experience with starwheels the other day - the strange thing is that when I reprinted the image again a few minutes later in exactly the same fashion as the first time they did not appear. Hope I do not see them again for another 5 months.
Harris

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2007, 10:32:25 pm »

You could try what this guy did (to the wheels on his b9180) ...

http://www.cliffaddy.com/b9180.html

Scroll way down the page. Seems like a neat idea.

Roscolo · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2007, 01:49:56 am »

I had some "pizza wheel" mark problems with a couple of Epson printers a couple of years ago.

I've had no problems with marks on any papers with my HP z3100. Printing on HP ID Photo Satin, HP Heavyweight Matte, Innova Cold Press Art, HP Litho, Kodak Glossy, Kodak Satin, HP ID Photo Glossy.

klocke · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2007, 02:31:10 am »

Quote

I've had no problems with marks on any papers with my HP z3100. Printing on HP ID Photo Satin, HP Heavyweight Matte, Innova Cold Press Art, HP Litho, Kodak Glossy, Kodak Satin, HP ID Photo Glossy.
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Roscolo,¨

it makes me wonder how old your Z3100 is, there have been several reports of modified transport assemblies, would you know if your printer has already such an "improved" assembly?

Stefan

tumesch · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2007, 05:09:41 am »

Quote

It depends, the larger EPSONs: 4000, 4800 for sure and the larger ones I assume as well, do not produce star wheel marks.
The smaller EPSONS, the 3800 for example do produce them (mine does).

The IPF5000/5100/6100 seem to do without starwheels on the print surface as well.

I had a Designjet 30 that was able to produce star wheel marks on some papers. I had expxected that they would have improved on this with the Z3100.

Regards
Stefan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145174\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It seems for a reliable paper transport you either need suction or some sort of star wheels. Unfortunately HP designed the Z3100 without vacuum.

Regards
Thomas

SeanPuckett · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2007, 07:43:43 am »

The starwheel marks on my z3100 in the black areas on satin media are annoying me sometimes, but I have prints with lots of black that are fine. My only guess: humidity related. I'm not sure if it's "too dry" or "too damp" that brings the problem. I don't have a humidity gauge, but I suppose I should get one.

Would be interesting to hear of starwheel mark reports by region -- I get them sometimes, and I'm in the famously variable weather of Southwestern Ontario.

Roscolo · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2007, 12:15:16 pm »

Quote

Roscolo,¨

it makes me wonder how old your Z3100 is, there have been several reports of modified transport assemblies, would you know if your printer has already such an "improved" assembly?

Stefan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145268\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I received my 44" z3100 around the end of April 2007. I haven't had any starwheel or roller marks at all (knock on wood).

The humidity / region theory is interesting. I'm in the Southeast near Atlanta. I print almost exclusively on rolls, not sheets. I don't know how widespread the problem is. Of the thousands of these printers that must have been sold, I've read of only a few people getting these marks, so perhaps it's an assembly issue and there are some "defective" z's out there.

I almost never print "fast." I almost always select the highest quality print setting and, on photos (not prints of paintings) I select "More Passes."

This seems to happen anyway, but I always roll out lots of slack on whatever paper I have loaded.

SeanPuckett · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2007, 12:17:43 pm »

It does make me think -- since I mostly print on rolls, why do I need trailing edge hold-down? Not ready to break out the screwdriver yet, though.

I like the "more passes" idea. I've got a reprint to do today so will try that and see if slower printing helps the issue. I usually use "best" quality anyway -- more passes will slow it down even more.

rdonson · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2007, 01:06:52 pm »

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Would be interesting to hear of starwheel mark reports by region -- I get them sometimes, and I'm in the famously variable weather of Southwestern Ontario.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145296\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I haven't seen any starwheel marks on my 24" Z3100. I print matte papers and HP ID Satin so I don't know that I'm using paper particularly susceptible to the marks.

Living near Charlotte, NC the weather is pretty similar to Atlanta. Despite being in a severe drought here this year the air has been humid.

I generally print on "best" settings without extra passes.

dkeyes · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2007, 02:27:08 am »

Only experienced a few marks (on z3100) in a heavily inked area (Innova Ultrasmooth gloss) when I had humidity above 70%. I have a guage right next to the printer in my basement in Seattle and it's usually around 55-60%. I think high humidity combined with heavy ink on a glossy type paper is the "starwheel zone". At least that's my experience. I've printed on most every white glossy paper available right now and only got marks a few times. I think the roller marks are also affected by the same ink/humidity/glossy heavyweight paper combo.
- Doug

Brian Gilkes · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2007, 07:40:02 am »

Vacuum seems to be the answer. I've never had a transport mark problem with the Epson 9800.
As mentioned in another thread sheets sometimes wander a bit laterally,but higher vacuum and possiblty guides could be the answer. I've had hassles with thin papers. Maybe it's weight. Maybe the vacuum just sucks through the paper. That certainly happens with the Unryu papers that leak like a sieve. I have to back them with something a little more substantial.
I'm currently very wary of HP and also Canon, the latter mainly due to the wearing of thermal heads and consequent rapidly changing profiles. Not being an acolyte of Epson , I'm very willing to listen to alternative arguments.
Cheers,
Brian ,
www.pharoseditions.com.au

SeanPuckett · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2007, 01:27:53 pm »

So here's my wacky idea. If the starwheel tracks are caused by uncured ink on the print passing under the wheels, then it follows that curing the ink before it passes under the wheels would fix the problem. If environmental humidity is high enough that "more passes" isn't sufficient, then the only solution I can think of is to drop environmental humidity -- at least within the printer.

Easiest way to drop humidity is raise temperature. So, I'm wondering if I can rig a hair dryer or some other device to an air ingress point of the printer to blow warm dry air inside would help. Or, perhaps a small flexible tube could be taped to the printhead carriage to blow warm air across the print as it approaches the starwheels. Or, well, perhaps I could air condition my studio.

rdonson · « **Reply #16 on:** October 12, 2007, 02:35:30 pm »

Not such a wacky idea, Sean.

My Z is in air-conditioned space with very good airflow. During the summer I keep the space at a max of 77F. In the winter it doesn't drop below 68F.

I'm going to move my humidity gauge to where I have my printer and start keeping track of the relative humidity. I suspect its pretty consistent and moderate. I've never experienced a print coming off the printer that didn't feel dry to the touch.

Author Topic: Regarding Starwheels (Read 5052 times)

Harris

DarkPenguin