Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta 325

[Josh-H]

Has anyone seen it or tried it yet?

New Paper

[neil snape]

Has anyone seen it or tried it yet?

New Paper
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There are only some prototype samples coming in now. I will try out this paper as soon as I get some samples promised to me. I did try their Bamboo fibre ( in the sense of made from bamboo fibre) paper which is a matte media similar to a smooth fine art matte yet the character is quite different.

[Ernst Dinkla]

There are only some prototype samples coming in now. I will try out this paper as soon as I get some samples promised to me. I did try their Bamboo fibre ( in the sense of made from bamboo fibre) paper which is a matte media similar to a smooth fine art matte yet the character is quite different.
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Neil, I wonder whether that Bamboo is equal to the Sihl Pro Baryte paper 290. Do you have any specs like the paper base color in Lab ?

It wouldn't be the first time that Hahnemuhle sells a paper with an exotic name: "Japon" that Sihl sold as a down to earth Flame Retardent Fleece.

China is consuming more of the world's raw materials so getting some bamboo fiber back is nice anyway.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]

[neil snape]

Kinda funny you mention that Ernst. First thing I did was look at the grammage, and low and behold it's 290 g/m2!

Okay, in their docs it says from a renewable resource, from bamboo fibres. They go on to say it is made from spring water.  Part of the price will be returned to environmental causes, a good thing.


It's a warm paper, but in my eyes not like other rag warm papers. The coating is quite a different colour than the base , for me this is distracting.

I sent an APS profile on up to the Wiki page on the Z , so you can take it apart for white point black, gamut etc. It is a slightly larger gamut than PR308 on the Z. I cannot say how it would perform on Epson.

[Colorwave]

May I assume, since you didn't mention anything Neil, that the Hahnemuhle Bamboo printed well on the Z3100 with no transport marking?  Is it as matte as the PR 308?
Thanks,
Ron H.

[neil snape]

May I assume, since you didn't mention anything Neil, that the Hahnemuhle Bamboo printed well on the Z3100 with no transport marking?  Is it as matte as the PR 308?
Thanks,
Ron H.
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Yes no marks or defects of any kind. Loads fine, nor roller marks on the back surface, no printing defects. Not even any wholes from fluff that sometimes happen on roll paper. Just a little smoother graduates than on PR so it's a nicer paper for skin tones, or any long tones. I was going to print up a batch today, so I'll make a critique later.

[Marcst]

I have recieved some samples of FineArt Baryta now.

Looks very promising and the feeling of the paper is just right. However, at least with a HP B9180 I did not manage so far to get rid of the inkpooling.  Decreasing the total amount of ink in the driver helps but this also weakens the blacks. Sine the inkpooling only occurs in the medium grays the blacks are fine and very impressive. So as far as I can get, it’s either impressive black and inkpooling in the greys or fine greys but weak blacks. I cannot comment on any Epson printer so far.
   
-Marc

[grizz1]

I have recieved some samples of FineArt Baryta now.

Looks very promising and the feeling of the paper is just right. However, at least with a HP B9180 I did not manage so far to get rid of the inkpooling.  Decreasing the total amount of ink in the driver helps but this also weakens the blacks. Sine the inkpooling only occurs in the medium grays the blacks are fine and very impressive. So as far as I can get, it’s either impressive black and inkpooling in the greys or fine greys but weak blacks. I cannot comment on any Epson printer so far.
   
-Marc
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I was allowed to pick up some final production samples at the Hahnemuehle paper mill here in Germany. (I live close to this mill)
I printed them with Imageprint on an Epson 4800, as Colorbyte does not have the profiles yet I used their  FineArt Pearl profile in BW and colour. To me the prints look close to perfect in color and BW. Impressive deep blacks and perfect gray tones. No bronzing. Some may object the color of the paper base, as it is a very bright white. Last Friday the paper was prepared for shipping to the distribution centers. It should be available  in Germany by the end of next week and in about the same time in the U.S..

Grizz 1

[Marcst]

Grizz,

I’m from Germany, too.  Although I don’t live close to Hahnemühle’s factory.

Yes, I’m not a big fan of OBs either. FineArt Baryta has a reflectance of 110 % at 440nm so there clearly are optical brighteners present.  

Nevertheless , I’ve made some profile with an Eye-One iO and FineArt Baryta is terrific with Epson printers. I think this might be my new favourite paper.  

[rdonson]

The Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta 325 will be available here in the next couple of weeks.

Any more reports on this paper?  I'll be printing with an HP Z3100.

I've been thinking of ordering a roll of the new Baryta and the new Bamboo when they're available and giving them a try but want to check on the latest experiences.

The Bamboo interests me in that its a very smooth matte and should hold detail very well.

The Baryta interests me because of its F type surface and DMax.

[Janos Lanyi]

I was allowed to pick up some final production samples at the Hahnemuehle paper mill here in Germany. (I live close to this mill)
I printed them with Imageprint on an Epson 4800, as Colorbyte does not have the profiles yet I used their  FineArt Pearl profile in BW and colour. To me the prints look close to perfect in color and BW. Impressive deep blacks and perfect gray tones. No bronzing. Some may object the color of the paper base, as it is a very bright white. Last Friday the paper was prepared for shipping to the distribution centers. It should be available  in Germany by the end of next week and in about the same time in the U.S..

Grizz 1
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Fine Art Pearl uses photo black, yet Bamboo is described on this thread as a matte paper. Which black did you use?

[neil snape]

I used PK and there was still some gloss differential, even with GE over the top of the print. Yet not near as bad as Harmon.....

[Janos Lanyi]

I used PK and there was still some gloss differential, even with GE over the top of the print. Yet not near as bad as Harmon.....
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Interesting. There are some papers (or at least one, from PremierArt) that is supposed to work with both kinds of blacks. Maybe this is another case, even if not intended. It makes me want to try it. I use Fine Art Pearl and like it a lot except for the optical brighteners. Thanks for the information.

[Brian Gilkes]

With Epson's inks (at least) PhotoBlack can be used on all papers, including art matte. This is why it is supplied as the default with new printers. The problem is on matte the DMax drops up to around 0.3. This is often acceptable if there ar not large areas of very dark tones. The matte on gloss shows very strong surface differential . With very smooth matte papers like we are seeing now, I suspect the difference between PK and Mk results might be small. For optimum results you would have to test both. Even though two papers may have similar specs, their surface coatings and their characteristics may be quite different. This appears to be the case with the baryta subbed papers.
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au

[TylerB]

there are definitely OBs in this paper. Not that there is any real evil in that, I just prefer papers that aren't blue.

Here are spectro LAB readings from some of these latest papers-


Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta- 99.9, 1.2, -3.7
Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Pearl- 98.5, 0.1, 1.6
Harman Glossy FB AI- 99.9, 0.2., -3.0
Innova FibaPrint Ultra Smooth Gloss- 97.7, 1.2, -5.4
Innova FibaPrint F-Type White Semi-Matte- 97.7, 0.8, -3.6
Ilford Gold Fiber Silk- 99.8, 0.1, -0.6

Only the new Ilford (my favorite) and the HPR Pearl, are not blue.
Tyler

[neil snape]

Tyler, even though the - b numbers are the first indicators of optical brighteners, they are not always the whole story. Sometimes the paper white is just blue or yellow or even green.
Using a blacklight often shows the optical brighteners, but we never know how much.
It is and will remain common practice to adjust the amount of OBA to control the batch media brightness, and of course this affects the white point adversely in different lighting. The problem with OBA are that we don't know how they will fade; ie: in blotches, changing colour, density differences and so forth.


Your findings are right in the ballpark for what I have tested, and what I assumed for the others based on experience.

[TylerB]

you are right of course that the paper color may be due to a number of things besides OBAs, I should not have sounded so definite about that. Also, I do understand the concerns with their presence. But many years of traditional darkroom printing with papers that all had them, without real issues, has me a bit less worried about them than some.
Pretty sure some of the papers I used for platinum had them as well.

My main concern with those B numbers is simply aesthetic, I find it less appealing, particularly for B&W unless toned cold. My favorite darkroom papers also had warm or neutral base hue.

Just my preferences, the manufacturers must be going nuts with all of us.
Tyler

[Marcst]

Guys, talking about spectro-readings: the (free) “Messure Tool” from the Profile Maker package gives you reflectance-readings in percent. Simply watch out for the 44nm band. If the reflectance is greater than 100 % there are OBs for sure.

[rdonson]

My understanding is that OBAs have been used since the 1940's in photo papers.  Obviously by now their effects should be fairly well understood.  At least with inkjet prints were not dunking them in chemicals anymore.

Here's a press release by Hahnemuhle on OBAs in their products that I found interesting.

[Ernst Dinkla]

My understanding is that OBAs have been used since the 1940's in photo papers.  Obviously by now their effects should be fairly well understood.  At least with inkjet prints were not dunking them in chemicals anymore.

Here's a press release by Hahnemuhle on OBAs in their products that I found interesting.
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Nice find. Been there several times this week to get real data on the Bamboo but didn't see this. What is interesting too is that alpha cellulose itself brings 95% white and cotton 90%, the OBAs can add 10-15 % but if you do not want OBA you better get alpha cellulose instead of cotton if it is about whiteness.

There's another thing not in this page that describes that the TiO2 whiteners can be used in much lower quantity than Baryte-Barite = Barium Sulphate needs for the same whitening. However TiO2 eats up too much UV light to let OBAs do their work. Barite doesn't show that effect so OBAs are more effective in combination with Barite.
I tried to find information whether the whiteness of TiO2 whiteners (there are more than one) is based on fluorescent behavior but couldn't find that. This UV thing is interesting as it also has an influence on where you will use OBA, in the paper base (like HM does in some papers) or in the coating.

The Hahnemühle advice at the end of the page to protect the more OBA containing paper behind glass must have been written with tongue in cheek as it will protect the OBA from falling apart due to less UV reaching it but the whitening effect is reduced as well by that.

Given some recent ozone testing results published in ColorFoto and Fine Art Printer one may wonder whether a good RC paper with an alpha cellulose base and TiO2 whitener in the polyethylene and no OBA would make a better exhibition paper for bare exposure than all the other qualities made right now. The surface preferably satin or semi-matte.

For example with the Vivera pigment and HP RC paper, two components of aging are estimated to be around 70 years: ozone fading of the pigments and the RC barrier falling apart. The lightfading resistance is 80 - 105 years. HM's PhotoRag however will show ozone fading of pigment between 50-60 years for the same ink in bare exposure, the lightfading resistance is more than 115 years. The RC + TiO2 barrier is much improved in technology since it was first introduced in analogue papers. It had a bad reputation but one may wonder if that is deserved over the last 20 years. Maybe it is bad taste to suggest plastic as a carrier of art, I know. Cotton, fiber, baryte and gelatine suggest quality for much longer.

There's no independent test of any of the fiber or fiber baryte papers published yet as far as I know.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]