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Author Topic: Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000  (Read 5043 times)

domsemaca

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« on: September 24, 2007, 09:57:46 pm »

I kept reading and reading about these printers but it looks that instead of being able to make a decision i bounce from one to another.
I need a 44" printer ,have the cash but the posts worry me about the marks you guys talk about the Z leaving on some papers and some issues with Canon support and so forth.
I guess i will just count the opinions and go for the majority.
Thanks.
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Osequis

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2007, 11:46:34 pm »

I'm in the same situation, but the Canon price is very atractive since I already own a spectrometer... I own a Canon w6400 and is flawless, fast and reliable so this may affect my decision.
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Happyfish

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2007, 01:19:19 am »

I have the IPF8000 and love it great printer

I think you really need a chance if you can get to a place that has both that you can play with and use your images  but if not both are great printers

the reasons I chose the canon ? well for me it was print quality both were great but the Z3100 red issue was still around when I got mine the speed of the IPF is amazing  
also the price was great as I have a spectro etc... already

the only downsize to the IPF would be if you want a straight through paper path ? but to me that was not a issue

all printers these days are amazing and I think if one masters their printers they can do a good job for them

I love HP as I used to work for them as a technology trainer inkjet and digital imaging and know the company produces amazing stuff so I almost pulled the trigger on the HP and I still might get one in the near future or see what the next model comes up as  and decide I dont need a spectro so dont want to pay for it ! one downside I hope they come out with 2 models in the future one with and one without

very little talk about the IPF ? some have said cause there are no problems with the 8000 series  and people are happy printing without worries  that might be the case ? dont know but funny there is very little talk the place I picked mine up had sold a ton of them ?
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zirmedien

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2007, 02:00:32 am »

Hi!
I have a Z2100 and an ipf 8000 - perfect combination. If I had to use only one printer, it would be the ipf, because of speed, no scratches on surface, no mechanical problems with fabrics. I use the z2100 80 percent for black and white, and there I like it much more than the ipf.
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Roscolo

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2007, 04:31:41 am »

z3100 - best printer I've ever used - hands down. Went with the z because I do a lot of B&W and it creates the best B&W prints I've ever seen and does so with true gray and black inks for truly neutral B&W's.

Color prints are awesome as well. I've seen no problems with reds. Non-APS z3100 profiles match my monitor. HP Vivera inks have the longest archival life from Wilhelm. I don't know if anyone ever got Wilhelm test info. on the Canon inks.
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Josh-H

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2007, 05:55:26 am »

For whats its worth I am going with the Canon 6100 as my large format printer. I know this is not an answer to your question - but my methodology for selecting the Canon was the user interface.

I am currently using a 9500 for everything up to a3+ - but the 6100 fits the bill nicely for me - and personally, I  find the user interface a joy.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2007, 05:57:37 am by JHolko »
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Bob Walters

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2007, 07:36:36 am »

Quote
.........................
I guess i will just count the opinions and go for the majority.
.....................
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141676\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well.................. using that logic, Kevin Federline (or whoever he is) would be the worlds best singer/father/sex god because some crazed teenager has a cell phone with unlimited minutes and nothing better to do than respond to a poll.

Having said that, I'll cast my vote (but only one vote) for the Z3100.  I really like mine.  I have not experienced any roller mark problems; however, the transport mechanism will leave some ripples on the leading edge of heavy, rag, watercolor paper if you leave it loaded overnight.  The solution is to simply unload the printer if the paper is going to sit there for a long time.

Bob
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Ernst Dinkla

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2007, 07:45:33 am »

Quote
I have not experienced any roller mark problems; however, the transport mechanism will leave some ripples on the leading edge of heavy, rag, watercolor paper if you leave it loaded overnight.  The solution is to simply unload the printer if the paper is going to sit there for a long time.

Bob
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That marking of softer papers happens also on Epsons, at least on the 9000 and 10000. Never let papers like German Etching stay overnight with the clamps on tension.


Ernst Dinkla

try:  [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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jpgentry

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2007, 11:04:52 pm »

IPF 8000 here.  More than 7000 sq/ft printed and going strong.  Works great on canvas or glossy.  Really fast printer with a great color gamut.  One thing is that I would buy the IPF9000 as it can be had for about the same price as the IPF8000 if you have a serial number of a 17 inch or larger printer.  ITsupplies.com and other companies that carry Canon are doing the deal.

-Jonathan Gentry
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domsemaca

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2007, 12:15:02 am »

Thanks a million people.I guess the moral is that they are all good printers.
One funny thing i heard this guy talking in "TED" about how choice makes you miserable.
There is some truth in that.
I remember the days i was living in my little eastern european communist country,not having too much choice,hey, there were days when there was no choice at all.
And now,twenty years later,on the verge of being miserable for too much choice.
I will just go out and buy one....i will stick with the 44" inch format ,though, as the only choice.
Thanks a lot again.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 12:16:05 am by domsemaca »
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Scott Martin

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2007, 06:45:39 am »

"z3100 - best printer I've ever used - hands down. "
"I'll cast my vote for the Z3100.  I really like mine."

But do you have a good bit of experience with an iPF  and Epson printers to contrast your experience with the Z? There are lots of "I love my Z" comments on this forum from those that don't have a well balanced perspective on all three brands. If everyone speaks up and says "I love my Epson!" 'I love my Z!" or "I love my iPF" it really isn't very helpful.

"Went with the z because I do a lot of B&W and it creates the best B&W prints I've ever seen"

But you haven't said what you have or haven't seen. Have you seen the output from the new iPF inks on the x100 printers?

I'm not trying to be argumentative - just constructive. Naturally everyone comments are appreciated. :-]

FWIW, I have made sample B&W prints on these printers, the iPFx000 printers, Z series printers, Epson K3 printers, etc and can say that Canon's new blacks inks have significantly less bronzing and better constancy than the others. Plus the new 32 passes mode renders increadibly fine detail equivalent to Epson's new screening in the 3800 and newer printers. The iPFx100 printers are the black and white printing champs, IMO. I used to think my Epson K3 black and white prints were nice but the new iPFx100 black and whites make them look bad.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2007, 08:31:31 am »

Quote
FWIW, I have made sample B&W prints on these printers, the iPFx000 printers, Z series printers, Epson K3 printers, etc and can say that Canon's new blacks inks have significantly less bronzing and better constancy than the others. Plus the new 32 passes mode renders increadibly fine detail equivalent to Epson's new screening in the 3800 and newer printers. The iPFx100 printers are the black and white printing champs, IMO. I used to think my Epson K3 black and white prints were nice but the new iPFx100 black and whites make them look bad.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But there's no iPF8100 or another Canon 44" announced that could have that 32 passes mode and new black inks. The thread is about the 44"  iPF8000.

So it may well be the Z3100 with the gloss enhancer + neutral blacks + its nice 16 passes mode that ends at the top in 44" B&W image quality.

How is the speed of the iPF5100 compared to the iPF5000 if 32 passes mode is used on the first ?


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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John Hollenberg

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2007, 09:06:27 am »

Quote
But there's no iPF8100 or another Canon 44" announced that could have that 32 passes mode and new black inks. The thread is about the 44"  iPF8000.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141924\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, but we know one is likely to be coming.  I can't see Canon leaving their largest printers with the old inkset, especially after the improvements Scott has noted with the new blacks.  The question is how long to wait for a possible successor.

--John
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Roscolo

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2007, 12:05:42 pm »

Quote
"z3100 - best printer I've ever used - hands down. "
"I'll cast my vote for the Z3100.  I really like mine."

But do you have a good bit of experience with an iPF  and Epson printers to contrast your experience with the Z?

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Previously I used numerous Epson printers, including 7600 and 9600. The lack of clogging in the z3100 alone makes it a dream come true compared to my extensive experience with Epson printers over the last 8 years. The Epsons were clog monsters. To date, I have had no clog on the z3100!

The z3100's built in spectrophotometer / automatic profiling system is the other most important feature for me. Profiling is fast and easy and extremely accurate. I'm not aware of another printer with built in spectro. It's a lifesaver and timesaver for me and far superior to my previous profiling system. As has been noted in several reviews, someone with even limited experience and knowledge of color and profiling can be up and running with the z3100 and producing perfect prints right off the bat. Literally, the first photographs I printed on the z done for a client were an absolute perfect match to what was on my monitor. I was amazed. Pretty sure I posted something to that effect here on the forums.

As I said, the B&W prints from the z3100 are the best I've seen. Prior to the z, I printed my B&W's exclusively in the darkroom. I see no bronzing on B&W prints made with the z3100 on HP Satin and, thanks to the gloss enhancer, there is no gloss differential. People I have shown these prints to cannot tell that these are not darkroom prints and often don't believe me when I tell them they are inkjet. The gloss enhancer in the z3100 is one of the best ideas ever in my opinion as the prints have a truly consistent surface and are virtually indistinguishable from traditional lab photographs. Framed, the B&W prints from the z have an appearance (but not the tactile "feel" obviously) of Ilford fiber gloss darkroom papers.

I do giclee' prints for artists. The z3100 has been gangbusters for my business in this respect. I have done numerous series of prints, art prints and photos, for high-end galleries. Everyone's happy.

For my own photographic artwork, I do a great deal of large-format B&W. Output from the z3100 is the first, and so far the only, prints that I am comfortable using for my art instead of B&W's created in my darkroom. I chalk that up to the z3100's use of multiple gray inks to produce truly neutral B&W's with no hints of color in them and equally important is the gloss enhancer for a consistent surface and reflectivity across the print.

I considered Canon, but the lack of documentation with the ipf5000 and the experiences of users documented on the Canon wiki scared me towards the z3100. As for Epson, I'll be quite content if I never use another Epson machine. I like that the printheads on the z3100 are user-replaceable and inexpensive. Hopefully the new printers from HP and Canon will drive Epson to make improvements in the future.

That's a long-winded mini-review. I've been a photographer for almost 20 years now, and the z3100 is one of the best tools I've ever used.
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Scott Martin

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Help me decide Z3100 vs IPF8000
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2007, 01:43:06 pm »

Quote
But there's no iPF8100 or another Canon 44" announced that could have that 32 passes mode and new black inks. The thread is about the 44"  iPF8000.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141924\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I had responded to domsemaca offline with the availability dates for the 8100 and 9100 that I probably shouldn't post here. They are coming and are therefore worth considering.

Quote
So it may well be the Z3100 with the gloss enhancer + neutral blacks + its nice 16 passes mode that ends at the top in 44" B&W image quality.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141924\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, but not for long! :-] The new inks could be worth waiting for.

Quote
How is the speed of the iPF5100 compared to the iPF5000 if 32 passes mode is used on the first ?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141924\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Good question - I haven't timed it yet.
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