Harman Gloss FB Al

[John Hollenberg]

Scott Martin sent me a profile he made for the iPF6100 on Harman FB Al Gloss. The profile has the largest gamut of any that I have seen on the iPF series printers! Significantly better results were obtained using Photo Paper Plus Semigloss Media type than Special 5 (much to my surprise).

Gamut volumes in Colorthink are:

Special 5 media type - 744,000
PPSG media type - 761,000

The old champ (but note this is on the iPF5000, not the iPF6100) was Epson Premium Luster, with a gamut volume of 732,000.

dmax wasn't quite as good (L* 5.1 vs. L* 3.3 for Premium Luster on iPF500).

Particularly impressive is a modest improvement in some of the warmer colors, especially yellow.

I really don't know if the improvement is related to the new inkset, a different way of mixing the inks, the fact that the photo paper plus semi-gloss media type may be a better fit (I need to try this Media Type on Epson Premium Luster on my iPF5000), or the paper itself.

--John

[madmanchan]

John, my own profile tests and measurements on my 3800 (K3 inks) also show that Harman Gloss FB Al has the largest gamut of any paper I've yet tested on this printer (and I've tested many). My results are similar ... the previous best was Premium Luster. PL still has a deeper black but HG has the bigger gamut. Of course both differences will be subtle in practice, but interesting to note anyways. (HG is clearly the winner in terms of gloss differential ... extremely little compared to PL!)

My settings used were Premium Glossy, 2880 dpi, High Speed Off, No Color Adjustment, Paper Thickness 4, Platen Gap = Wide. Did not adjust Color Density or Drying Time.

[John Hollenberg]

I just got an email from Scott.  Apparently I misunderstood, as we had been discussing the iPF6100 a lot.  He says the profiles he sent were made on the iPF5000.  So apparently it is the paper, not the printer.  Eric, this fits with what you saw on the 3800.

--John

[David White]

I really don't know if the improvement is related to the new inkset, a different way of mixing the inks, the fact that the photo paper plus semi-gloss media type may be a better fit (I need to try this Media Type on Epson Premium Luster on my iPF5000), or the paper itself.
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John,

The big problem here is that you can't feed this media type via the roll feed on the 5000.  Hopefully this will have been corrected in the X100 series.  I wonder if Special 4 may have been better for this particular paper.

[sojournerphoto]

John,

The big problem here is that you can't feed this media type via the roll feed on the 5000.  Hopefully this will have been corrected in the X100 series.  I wonder if Special 4 may have been better for this particular paper.
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Perhaps the heavyweight lustre setting that can be roll fed is similar to the photopaper plus lustre for sheet feeding? One thing that is useful is to be able to use one profile for sheet and roll stock.

All info grateully received

Mike

[Kalin Wilson]

Significantly better results were obtained using Photo Paper Plus Semigloss Media type than Special 5 (much to my surprise).

Thanks for this info. I'll use that setting when I profile my paper.

Interesting note about roll feed problems. If I start using this paper I'd definitely want rolls. Has anyone tried manual settings to widen the platen gap? I'll have to refresh my memory on the on-printer controls to verify if/how to do that.

Thanks, folks!

[John Hollenberg]

The big problem here is that you can't feed this media type via the roll feed on the 5000.  Hopefully this will have been corrected in the X100 series.  I wonder if Special 4 may have been better for this particular paper.
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I hope it has been corrected.  Still trying to find out that information from Canon.  Les will be talking with them this week, it is on his list of questions.  I agree that Special 4 may have been a better choice--would have to try making a profile to see.

One problem with this paper and the iPF5000 is I don't think it comes in 17 inch rolls (could be mistaken here, though).

--John

[Kalin Wilson]

One problem with this paper and the iPF5000 is I don't think it comes in 17 inch rolls (could be mistaken here, though).

--John
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Inkjetart has 17"x50' rolls for $138.95.

Have people been able to feed sheets from the cassette on the 5000 or have they been using the tray?

[John Hollenberg]

Inkjetart has 17"x50' rolls for $138.95.

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Right you are.  It is listed as in stock, too...

--John

[tomm101]

John,

The big problem here is that you can't feed this media type via the roll feed on the 5000.  Hopefully this will have been corrected in the X100 series.  I wonder if Special 4 may have been better for this particular paper.
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The paper is stiffer than the Canon Bright White Fine Art 350 wow, though that was a stiff paper. What happens, do you get head strikes? Was going to order a roll.

Tom

[John Hollenberg]

The paper is stiffer than the Canon Bright White Fine Art 350 wow, though that was a stiff paper. What happens, do you get head strikes? Was going to order a roll.

Quote from Wiki discussion forum post re: Harman FB Al Gloss:

"Well, it took four sheets to get a good two sheet target (letter size). I got head strikes (bad) on the first two sheets. I had success using the PPP-SG setting and choosing Head Height=Highest and Vacuum Strength=Strongest. Also I fed from the top tray. Feeding from the cassette with Head height=High and Vacuum strength=Strong didn't work. Has anyone else had feed/head strike problems? The paper flattens when printed but has a strong curl out of the box."

--John

[dmccombs]

John,

   I picked up some letter sized sheets of this paper and did a few test prints last night.  I have an Epson 3800 and used the main feeder.  I had no problems, but I did set the platen to wide because this is a thick paper.

   The colors popped, and the blacks were black.  The dark areas were a tad too dark, but nothing a custom profile won't fix.

Regards,
Darrell

Quote from Wiki discussion forum post re: Harman FB Al Gloss:

"Well, it took four sheets to get a good two sheet target (letter size). I got head strikes (bad) on the first two sheets. I had success using the PPP-SG setting and choosing Head Height=Highest and Vacuum Strength=Strongest. Also I fed from the top tray. Feeding from the cassette with Head height=High and Vacuum strength=Strong didn't work. Has anyone else had feed/head strike problems? The paper flattens when printed but has a strong curl out of the box."

--John
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[Bill Koenig]

Of the few places that have it, Freestyle photo has the best deal. Just placed my order for 15 sheets of 13x19

[Kalin Wilson]

I got my box of letter size yesterday and printed 1452 patch targets. For the iPF5000 owners I printed using Photo Paper Plus and Photo Paper Plus-semigloss media types. My eyeball can't see much of a difference between the two, we'll see what the spectro sees. I plan to profile them tonight and start printing some tests.

John's quote about head strikes was from me. I'd like to see if I can feed from the cassette with the head height and vacuum adjustments. Maybe after some successful prints, it's a little expensive for lots of experimentation.

I'm in the process of testing a variety of papers and printed targets on Museo Silver Rag last night also. The Silver rag and the Harman gloss looked very similar in saturation and color rendition although the Harman has a much smoother texture. For a 'gloss' paper, it has very little sheen.

More info when I get some tests printed.
 
~Kalin

[JPrimgaard]

I received a box of letter size from Shades of Paper a few days ago and promptly made a profile with the i1 using Photo Paper Plus Semi Gloss before realizing that this media type will not support roll media.  

Since I intend to go with rolls if I stay with this paper I did another profiling today using Special 5 and could not see any difference between the two profiles when comparing via softproofing or printing.

No problems with headstrikes or otherwise.  The prints are really nice!  I agree that the paper has a low sheen for a gloss (looks more like a semi gloss to me) and the texture is very subtle.

I'm looking forward to see what the competition comes out with.

Jake

PS  Sorry, should mention that I'm printing with the ipf5000 for those who haven't already figured it out.

[Kalin Wilson]

More info when I get some tests printed.
 
~Kalin
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Wow! This paper looks great! I don't have any Silver Gelatin experience to compare to but on it's own it's wonderful.

Here's a little more info from an initial test on the iPF5000.
I printed Atkinson 1452 targets on two letter sheets using both the 'Photo Paper Plus' and 'Photo Paper Plus Semi-gloss' media types. Inspecting the profiles in the windows color tool indicates that the 'Photo Paper Plus' variant is slightly larger in volume than the semi-gloss profile. However, using the [a href=\"http://www.outbackprint.com/printinginsights/pi049/essay.html]DOP Printer Evaluation Image[/url] I see no difference in the images made with these two profiles.

Using the DOP image, under a 5000K lamp, I can discern black differences to level 4 and white differences to 252, almost 253. Very wide dynamic range.

I'm also evaluating Crane Museo Silver Rag. Comparing the test image on both papers, the teardrop arch image shows more contrast and richer tones on the Harman paper. The strawberries are also a deeper tone but not over-saturated on the Harman. On the Harman the lava looks sharper with smoother gradations (very slight) but this may be due more to the texture differences. The texture of the Harman paper is very slight, much less noticeable than the Silver Rag - which may ot may not meet your aesthetic tastes. Overall, the blacks are slightly deeper on the Harman paper which yields better contrast ranges in various parts of the test image.

As I was printing the test image, I softproofed using the Harman photo paper plus profile. I was surprised to see that turning 'simulate paper white' on/off had little effect on the preview. I actually had to toggle it a few times to see that it was having any effect. The color shift under soft proofing was more substantial but in line with what you would expect. The soft proofed image on monitor was nearly identical to the print under a 5000K lamp. That is cool!

These are just some initial impressions from a single test image. I still need to print some of my images to compare.

John, if you're interested in a more in depth look at these profiles, let me know.

~Kalin